CAUTION REGARDING ALUMINUM FRAMES: Guess I'll be building a new bike...

Hey Miss Baron,

How about welding/repairing your bike frame?:unsure:

Maybe you can take your bike(intact) to a reputable welder and fix it for cheap.

That's what I'd do first. Visit a professional for his expert opinion.
 
It would cost less just to bring this aluminum frame to a welder and have it fixed. Nothing at all wrong with aluminum frames vs steel frames. I would weld it for free if you can bring it to the poconos and a case of natty ice. Welding this stuff is a piece of cake.
 
It would cost less just to bring this aluminum frame to a welder and have it fixed. Nothing at all wrong with aluminum frames vs steel frames. I would weld it for free if you can bring it to the poconos and a case of natty ice. Welding this stuff is a piece of cake.

"natty ice"... (y) not MY first choice, but I'd rather drink that than anything Miller...

Anyway, for fixing it-- yeah that's always an option, and if it had broken from a single and unusual incident (like... someone throwing it, or something incredibly heavy falling on it) I probably wouldn't think twice about repairing it. Or, if it had cracked at a weld, then I could blame the joint. But since it broke so easily from simply riding it in the first place, I don't know if I would ever feel safe on it with a repair.

What I have definitely thought about is fixing it to be what I actually bought it for in the first place-- just a pedal bike. Nothing has been "done" to it in the motorizing process that would prevent it from going back to being just a pedal bike.

I haven't done anything with it after finding the crack except drain the gas tank, so I still have the option of fixing it.

With winter coming, I would be riding less right now ANYWAY, though I was planning on riding on "warmer" days-- so I've got time to make smart decisions. But with how many upgrades I was thinking about doing anyway-- brakes, wheels, tires, fork at a bare minimum-- I can get all that as a complete bike for not a lot more than buying parts along the way. Pirate Cycles has the Worksman wheels with the disc brakes for $200 for the pair, $40 for a fork, Kevlar tires would be $50 for the pair... by the time I would spend all that, I might as well just buy the whole bike. Direct from Worksman, you can buy a complete basic bike for $300 (extra for drum brakes, kevlar tires, and other upgrade options) but even the basic bike would be a better baseline than what I've got.

So, I've got options at many price levels. And since it's getting colder, it's the perfect time of the year to be without a bike while I weigh my options.

And if you are lucky enough to get your hands on a QUALITY mountain bike, aluminum sounds like it's fine... possibly even sought out. But if you are looking at mid-range priced bikes or cheaper-- go steel.
 
Yes, I did. Days ago. And I said it in direct response to your post about what you are riding, not just in passing. And you even replied that you had not heard of the company (Greenline). I also went on to explain that Greenlines are nearly identical to Micargis (so identical they are probably made in the same factory), and Micargis are some of the most often motorized bikes by the companies that offer pre-made MBs.

Maybe MY bike was defective and would have failed after 300 pedaled miles. Probably not, but I have read other posts on this forum regarding the failure of aluminum frames because the majority of people on this forum are probably using less-expensive bikes than your "top of the line for its time" Gary Fisher.

As for the actual source of the engine itself, I bought it from someone I know who deals in engines, bikes, bike parts, and complete MBs. She even came over a couple times to help me with a couple things like installing the drive chain (she's built dozens of MBs, but my chain was being stubborn for even her). The engine itself is a PK-80, which is a Chinese frame mount engine-- though I guess I figured you could at least tell I have a frame-mount based on my profile picture.



You seem to be getting annoyed that I am not heeding your advice of completely scrapping what I have and going with a rear-mount motor, though in my very first post I stated my proposed solution to my problem-- rebuild using a Worksman. At no point did I ask anyone for advice, so I don't know why you are annoyed I am not taking yours.



Before I even bought the engine kit, I asked around on the forum-- what kind of lifespan I can expect out of a HT motor, and there are people here that use them as commuters and have gotten thousands of miles from them. While many people here are hobbyists, these engines were created to BE transportation in countries where bicycles nearly outnumber people (or at least seem to outnumber people). Some say they were designed in Russia and stolen by the Chinese... others say the Russians stole the design from the Germans and were then eventually made by China... doesn't really matter.

What matters is that the failure in question was the frame-- a mid-price aluminum cruiser-- "low-price" being Wal-Mart bikes, "upper price" being Felt, Worksman, Trek... And I stand behind my assertion that the failure would not have happened if I had bought a steel version of the same bike. I guess if I could edit the heading of this thread, I could change it to "Caution regarding Aluminum frames", but I can't. Mods, if you are able, feel free to modify the thread title.

Redbarronx,

Must apologize for any misunderstandings!
I hope you get your bike fixed and under way as soon as possible. And yes it would be totally unreasonable of me to expect you to start over with your project when you have parts and an engine ready to go!
I wish you the best of luck locating a great frame set for your needs.
And I am sure it was devestating to have that frame brake! Again, best of luck and my apologies for any confusion or misunderstanding...
If you want to read about my cycling adventures here's my Blog address: www.thekettle-morainebiker.blogspot.com motored biking is just something new cycling wise that I have gotten into. And new means ignorant. But I am learning fast!

Kevin
 
Crummy luck, sorry to hear. Where I'm located there are a number of Salvation Army Thrift
Stores and Deseret Industries (also a thrift store) within a couple of miles. I've found great deals on a number of bikes there some for less than $20. Although I know that when your broke, $20 is a lot of money. Public transportation runs right past these thrift stores, and the buses around here even have racks on the front made for bikers to put their bikes while riding the bus. Just a thought.
 
I used to be a fairly hardcore mountain biker until I got too old and developed a lot of medical issues, among them fairly severe arthritis and fibromyalgia. I broke 2 aluminum frames, one Trek and one Gary Fisher. Both broke where the seat stays attach to the seat post. I do admit these were not top of the line bikes, and were abused.

Modern aluminum bike frames hold up very well, as bikes. Motorizing them is a whole nother thing. First of all, I would never recommend a Chinese engine to anyone. If you want a motorcycle, get a motorcycle. These engines are junk, and even on a super strong steel frame, you will have to just keep replacing engines. To my knowledge, nobody makes a quality frame mount engine. Also, the chain tensioners and rag joint rear sprocket mounting that comes with Chinese engines are worse than junk. They will fail, and possibly seriously injure you in the process. Most modern aluminum frames use oversize tubing for strength, and the Chinese engines don't fit them very well. And has been said, vibration can be a serious problem. Aluminum welds are particularly susceptible to vibration damage. IMO all good reasons for not using a Chinese engine, especially on an aluminum frame.

Aluminum frames also present a problem with rack mount systems like the BMP kit. I just bout one of these kits, and it appears very well made, and more than up to the task. And you certainly can't beat the price. But they do have an issue with aluminum frames, as I found out with a similar setup years ago. They clamp to the seat stays, and when I tightened the bolts, it crushed the aluminum seat stays and destroyed the frame. Again, this was not a high quality frame, not even a name brand frame, probably Chinese. But even on a good quality aluminum frame, if installing the mount didn't damage the frame, the vibration from the motor would probably crack the welds over time. The clamp on mount forms a structural part of the motor mount/drive system. I can see using a GEBE setup on an aluminum frame, it uses a thin metal strap connected to the frame, which does not really put any stress on the frame welds, or crimp the frame tubes. But it is expensive, and I don't like the way the pulley attaches to only one side of the wheel. I'm sure it would work fine with a super strong rear wheel.

But I am a friction drive fan, it's all I have ever used, and it works great. I am mounting a Robin/Suburu engine on my bike with a BMP kit. A bit about the bike. This is an early '90s Trek "Antelope 800" steel framed mountain bike I bought at a Goodwill store for $15 in great shape. And when I say steel, I mean STEEL. This frame is super high carbon steel, you would almost have to run over it with a cement truck to break it, it;s that tough. It also came with a perfect set of Araya double walled aluminum rims with stainless steel spokes. Apparently Trek made better bikes back then than they do now. I stripped it down, removed the 2 largest front chainrings, the front derailleur, the rear derailleur, and cut the chain to the right length for the center rear sprocket, making it a very low geared single speed. In a concession to comfort, I also installed a suspension seatpost, and a big wide plush cruiser seat, and higher bars with foam grips, so I could sit upright to ride it. It has been very comfortable and reliable during the past 3 years with an Island Hoppers Viper clamp on friction drive kit, but the cheap 2 stroke Tecumseh TCII engine bit the dust, and the mount kit wouldn't fit a modern engine with the larger clutch. And when I said 3 years, I don't mean daily use, in fact, it rarely got ridden because the engine made more noise than the siren on a fire truck. I hope the modern 4 stroke solves that problem.

I want a motorized bicycle, not a motorcycle look-a-like. I already have 4 motorcycles and 2 scooters, one of them a vintage Vespa that I restored. In AZ, you can legally ride a MB in the bike lane, as long as you don't get assaulted for doing so. One of the reasons I want a quiet engine.

IMO, you should carefully consider your needs and wants, if you need transportation, get a decent steel framed bike, and put a BMP mounting kit and 4 stroke engine on it. If looks are more important, get a decent steel framed bike and put a Chinese motor on it. Buy 2-3 at the time, they don't last that long. If you want a super expensive setup, get an expensive aluminum framed bike shop bike, and put a GEBE kit on it. And make sure you get their rear wheel to go with it. Jerry.
 
It would cost less just to bring this aluminum frame to a welder and have it fixed. Nothing at all wrong with aluminum frames vs steel frames. I would weld it for free if you can bring it to the poconos and a case of natty ice. Welding this stuff is a piece of cake.


I am an auto mechanic (33 years) and a decent welder (arc, gas, mig, tig) but I have very little experience with aluminum, and wouldn't even consider trying to weld the super thin aluminum of a cheap bike frame. I do not believe it could be done safely. I don't even believe the original weld was safe. I am assuming this frame was made in China (why is everything made in China junk? I don't know, but it is). My '90s Trek steel frame was made in the U.S. Trek, along with all other name brand bike companies now has their low end stuff made in China to cut costs. Some of it is only slightly better than wallymart stuff.

I have never heard of anyone trying to repair an aluminum bike frame, there is simply too much stress on the welds. When a bike shop brand frame fails under warranty, and it does happen, they replace it, they don't try to weld it.


I have yet to hear how much this bike cost, but if it was $200-$300 or less, toss the whole thing in the dumpster. A bike in that price range might have lasted forever as a pedal bike, but not with a motor on it. And now that the frame is destroyed, I doubt the rest of it is worth saving, especially since you said you planned to upgrade most of the parts anyway.

I can definitely recommend a Worksman bike, if a Chinese engine is what you want, they will outlast a dozen Chinese engines. You might also consider the Grubee GT1 or GT2 "made to motorize bikes, that were specifically designed for the Chinese engines. They are steel, Chinese steel, but steel none the less. Jerry. Proud original Coors drinker.
 
Junkyarddog, you say you are an decent welder yet you dont weld aluminum ?

I say aluminum bike frame can be welded with perfect ease and safety using a tig, Heck i can weld two soda cans together . there is no mystery at all in aluminum welding, you just need experience welding it is all.

And the reason you dont hear alot of people weld repairing aluminum is most likely most weekend welders only have 110 volt mig welders . Most people dont understand how or want to purchase a tig welder and those are the best for bike frames.

check this link out, its an intake I made and welded with my tig,pretty easy to weld aluminum in my opinion.
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=30066


I have never heard of anyone trying to repair an aluminum bike frame, there is simply too much stress on the welds. When a bike shop brand frame fails under warranty, and it does happen, they replace it, they don't try to weld it.

That is due to costs, it is cheaper to replace than send it to a professional welder, I would charge a person a minimum of $100 per inch of weld on there bike(if they were a stranger to me otherwise a case of beer will suffice). You can see why they just replace the bike.

And there is no more stress on an aluminum weld versus a steel weld,that was just an odd statement to me..
 
Last edited:
Most of my welding is on trucks, landscaping, and construction stuff. I would like to see someone weld 2 soda cans together. You can burn a hole in them with a cigarette lighter.

As for the difference between aluminum and steel, it is considerable. Aluminum has a completely different molecular structure than steel. It is far more brittle, and when bent, will crack much easier than steel. Aluminum does not withstand vibration as well as steel.

An aluminum bicycle frame can be safely welded in a factory one time. After that, the aluminum around a failed weld is to weak to weld again. The molecular structure has broken down. It can be done, but would not be strong enough to be safe.

As I said, I broke 2 factory welded Trek frames, while riding them as pedal bikes. I sure wouldn't motorize one. Especially with a Chinese engine. But then I wouldn't be using a Chinese engine anyway. The 2 Trek frames I broke were Chinese. One was a 4300, I can't remember what the other one was.
 
Back
Top