Mods for reliability

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by battery, Feb 22, 2014.

  1. battery

    battery Member

    what would you reccomend for long distance with little chance of break down?

  2. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    a kawasaki
  3. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Keep the rpm's below 4,000, and carry a spare magneto + spare CDI + spare coil + spare spark plug.
  4. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    lots of Loctite if you haven't replaces the weak nuts and bolts and if you haven't balanced the engine
    battery likes this.
  5. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Loctite 222 and 243 and 263 are your best friend when involved in this hobby/transport.
  6. dchevygod

    dchevygod Member

    Buy any Zenoah " G23LH, G23-29RC, G43L & G62 " and fit it with a GEBE belt drive.

    Always pedal from a start, don't WOT " wide open throttle " for over 15-20 seconds and always use good oil at the right ratio. For performance zenoah and Chinese zenoah clone engines have more available upgrades than any other that I know of. I suggest either a Walbro wt-257 or a hda-48 carb because of the single fuel feed but the stock carb will very from year and model the newer version comes with a wt-668 "wt and hda carbs have H/L adjustments" and the older ones had a Walbro wyk barrel carb " some wyk carbs have a low fuel adjustment but most don't, they have knock offs with H/L adjustments similar to the biggest and best barrel carb the wyk-58.

    Oh yeah and loc-tit is your friend, never hurts to check and or upgrade the bolts even when new.

    If you want a reliable torquey engine go with the G43L they are really almost bullet proof if left mostly stock and taken care of.
  7. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    We all have different have different definitions of long distance. At one time, I did 50 mile round trip commutes about once a week.
    For trips longer than that, I would likely get a four stroke like the Huashang. Mixing gas and oil is a little inconvenient on long trips.
    You could also add an engine oil cooler to a four stroke engine that would provide a bit more oil capacity.
  8. battery

    battery Member

    So it has been said that I am very wrong about the shift kits reliability. I say the kit decreases reliability greatly. there are many benifits, as well as down sides to the kit. as there are with the single gear. but for the long haul rides 100+ miles I would much rather have the left side drive.
    fury asks, I would like to hear what problem's I have run into?
    here are a few. most have been chain issues, before the shift kit I had so many problems with the idler pulley. it worked its way down over time. any got more slack as the engine settled and chain stretched. and at one point flipped around and ripped my spokes out of the rim. I had to re spoke the rim with washers. my possible solutions for the issue would be to either take a grinding wheel and score the grip on the idler pulley, Or to flip the idler pulley to the opposite side of the frame so that it would be upside down. therefore giving it no chance to flip around. as for the wheel working its way down I would like to hear what any of you folks have come up with.

    The shift kit I have had more problems with. the chain that runs from the 9-11 tooth sprocket to the 44-48 tooth freewheel often breaks loose. yes I do have them PERFECTLY alighned. I am a carpenter and have pleanty of lasers and straight edges. the majority of the problems are chain stretching and engine settling. but there is a very fine line between too much tension and not enough. the chain tensioner would help greatly but I would like to fabricate my own as I would like a heavier spring.
    also with the shift kit there is a chain stay for the drive chain that goes to the rear derailer. it is a must! do not attemp to run without it. but even with it the chain will often fly off inbetween the freewheel and the drive wheel. I would like to see a boxed in chain stay to hold the chain's place in all directions.

    Another negative to the shift kits reliability, you are relying on the bikes main drive and if you should blow a one way bearing or snap a chain you are stuck walking. on many occasion the bike gave me a run for my money. you loose power through the shift kit. which was quite noticeable when I first installed it. did no better up the hills but could go faster. which could have been acheived by reducing my gear ration on the rear wheel and peddled up the steepest hills of N.Y. we do have the worst roads in the country. although san fran has the steepest we are close. but if you are looking to peddle with your bike and have speed then no shift kit. seriosly. you will get 20+ mph with the regular stock drive and pull up hills quite fast with a little peddling. with the shift kit you cannot peddle and loose speed up hills. powerband is less noticable.
    In the end I beleive it depends on how much money you are willing to spend. me, I do not need the biggest musalium in the cemetary.
    FurryOnTheInside likes this.
  9. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Surely you can't say that with the sound of complete sincerity in your voice.

    OMFG, i can't comprehend such a ludicrous concept.

    :ee2k: and you are saying the shift kit is a worse solution. I am seeing logic so regressed that it's beyond the comprehension of a monkey with a learning disability.

    :iagree: and have suffered the "same" issues with my shift kit, even though my jackshaft chain is perfectly aligned. The solution is now provided by the SickBikeParts Right Hand Side Chain Tensioner, which solves this problem completely.

    :iagree: which is why the "Right Hand Side Chain Tensioner is essential to the reliability of the Shift Kit
    The engineer of the shift kit has heard my annoying voice in his ear for the last two years to provide a viable solution to this problem, even though he refuses to accept that it "was" a problem; with many people complaining about it to me in PM's, as they wanted me to manufacture and sell my chain tensioner solution.
    Fortunately SickBikeParts has provided a much better solution, and i can say that it most definitely does work to perfection.

    The solution is to run a "Dual Ratio" on the bottom bracket crank, operated using a conventional front derailleur. This effectively boxes in the chain so it can't jump off the sprockets.
    The side benefit is that it gives you low range hill climbing gears and/or low speed crawling ability when negotiating difficult terrain.

    I can accept this argument, and you have a valid point because it has happened to me, "but" only because i didn't listen to my own advise and change the bearing in the freewheel system when the internal bearing tolerance was out of spec i.e. you could wobble the final drive chainwheel more than 1/8 of an inch.
    Having said that, it took 6,000 kilometers for the bearing to wear to the point where it was about to fail. It's the reason why i am so in favour of the White Industries Heavy Duty Freewheel Bearing because it can be rebuilt well before the freewheel bearing fails.
    Another thing to note is that the internal pawl mechanism of the White Industries Freewheel is completely bullet proof, in comparison to the cheaper options which have been known to fail in this area.

    Have you lost your mind? Such a comment makes me think so!

    Crikey, it appears that you really have lost your mind.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  10. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

  11. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Chain quality, although important, doesn't eliminate chain stretch. Unfortunately chain stretch is a function of materials quality, lubrication and load.

    Surprisingly i have found that when it comes to bicycle chain, price is not reflective of chain quality. An example of this is Wipperman stainless steel 9 speed chain, which costs approx 5 times as much as a basic KMC or SRAM or Shimano 9 speed chain, yet from my experience it only lasted 15% longer than the base model chains: 500% more expensive, yet only lasting 15% longer.

    I have never had a bicycle chain fail from tension induced stress, and i induce a heck of a lot of stress in my chain drive system.
  12. battery

    battery Member

    LOL! :D I like you fabian you say it like it is!
    but in essance the more parts you have the more things that can go wrong. as far as reliability is concerned, the shift kit will give you less. but as far as fun, it gives you ten fold!
    As I am not allowed to have a car, I ride a bike. before the moped, it was a bicycle. and I would ride over 50 miles from home in a day. and I still do with the moped. but much faster now.
    There is no question to be had about power loss with the shift kit, more part to turn means less power. if you want speed then a small rear sprocket on your single speed will do the trick. if you live somewhere like the hills of NY like I do then the shift kit is to your benifit.
    a heavy duty chain is the least of my concern.
    and yes Fabian I am bat $h1t crazy
    nothing makes you feel more alive than being closer to death!
  13. battery

    battery Member

    "Surely you can't say that with the sound of complete sincerity in your voice."
    Everything I say is with complete sincerity.
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, Baffle them with bull ****.
  14. dchevygod

    dchevygod Member

    I cannot say how the shift kit stuff has worked since I haven't used an sbp kit, I only have had single speed stuff so far but I havle on the drawing board a DIY shifter...

    I run a dual drive 26" wheel with an axle mounted 5:1 trans with a G43 on it. So I'm going to rack mount the motor, find a narrow drive sprocket for the transmission and see if the 7-SPD cassette derailer works as is. Or if it can be clocked to. I'll then have a tall single speed LSD for pedal crank assist to keep legal. I'm sure that the tallest gears may be useless unless I can find a small enough pinion sprocket.

    Moving the engine up and more centered will allow the use of my Flowsystem GSR 40 pipe :) I hope!

    Tho whole reason to do this is because I recently moved from a really flat AZ to the ungodly hilly Colorado! So I need hill climbing ability. Its kinda like the dual right sided drive I've seen posted on here but I don't think that was a shifter? He used a 5:1 trans as well.

    On a nice long flat back in AZ this single speed at WOT has been gps'd at 52.3 with the first engine "cy460" , And 47.5 Mph with my current motor "g43" unpiped though. My pipe is absolutely insane! If you haven't seen one you need to Google "Flowsystem GSR 40 pipe" for good pics I'll find a rev video of my motor on a buddies GSR.

    Well here is the inital pipe mounting with a new ported top end

    QUOTE from cablescum; We drank some beers, rebuilt a ped, rode and ate some Baked Cavatelli in pink sauce and handmade Spicy Italian Sausages...not necessarily in that order:rolleyes:

    Tearing it down...

    Matched the ports to a ported 460(ish)...

    Cyl/piston flip, shroud chop...



    Now it tries to get out from under you, still super rich...but it is a rocket:eek:
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  15. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Active Member

    Hi battery. Thanks for giving details on the problems you have encountered with the S.B.P. Shift Kit.
    I take your points about the RHS chain loosening during use due to wear and also engine settling. That first one really can only be minimised by good chain care, but can never be prevented completely. I will have to stay on top of the chain care and design my chain tensioners carefully. :) The second point I had not read about on the forum until now, which makes me very glad I asked the question! :) Do you have the adjuster rod installed with nuts locked together so that they cannot back off? I notice in the shift kit installation PDF that they show only one nut underneath the rear mount. Logic would suggest there should be two to prevent engine settling. Do you think this would work? I read in the PDF about needing to re-adjust the RHS chain tension a few times during the first ride; but it sounds like this problem has been more persistent.. not sure if you meant it that way? I intend to fit a RHS chain tensioner anyway, though I'll have to see about the amount of spring tension- I'd like to keep it as little as possible because adding spring tensioners increases parasitic drag and reduces power output.....

    I agree that the extra chains and sprockets (and tensioners if fitted) add extra parasitic drag to the system, which of course reduces "power"; but that's not a reliability issue, and anyway measured power is not as important as being able to apply that power to the road surface at all times, which is where gears are essential.

    I also agree that adding complexity also adds potential modes of failure. With the help of MBc members posting their experiences I hope that I can pre-emptively fix most of these failures. Is your freewheel the heavy duty White Industries (HD) one? Has it actually failed or did you mean only to point out that it is a potential point of failure?
    I think the problem of the final chain derailling accidentally can be solved with enclosed chain retention devices, not neccesarily a front derailleur, and not neccesarily including a dual range.. Fabian. :p I've found the DMR chain retention devices to be very simple to set up and customise when I've used them on (single range, geared) bicycles. Everything always needs customised fitting though.. that's just part of the (motorised or not) bike building hobby IMHO.

    I do intend to pedal my bike, whilst also using engine power, and also use pedal power or engine power alone. If that turns out to be possible I will be absolutely "over-the-moon" and "chuffed to ninepence". I am fairly sure of the quality of the freehubs I will be using. I have a spare 48h Hope Big Un tandem rear hub that I can fit if the one in my original wheelset fails. During a ride of course, a broken freehub can be temporarily converted to a fixie, capable of taking at least moderate pedal power, by means of wiring the cassette to the drive side spokes- much like the awful rag joints that come with the China girl kits. You should never have to walk a bike with a slipping freehub if there is wire (i.e. farm fences) available somewhere nearby or in your toolkit.

    I realise that the success or failure of my project lies mainly in the quality of my work, and the thoroughness of my homework (which is what I'm doing here :) ) so thank you for pointing out a few potential hazards and "bumps in the road". :)

    and I hope your head's okay this morning. ;) :p
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  16. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    The adjuster rod is supplied with dual locking nuts. Even when the chain tension is set correctly and the tension rod dual locking nuts are fixed in place, the engine will still take around 30 miles of use before it settles into position. Part of this settling action has to do with the fact that the engine not only settles vertically, but also in the lateral plane as the right hand side of the jackshaft twists in a downward manner; together with the engine (or better described as twisting downward through an arc) due to the tension force between the 10 tooth Jackshaft sprocket and the 44 tooth chainwheel sprocket.

    For this reason, the additional shift kit stabilisation technique is very useful in minimising this problem:

    Honestly, the amount of drag that is created by the chain tensioner is f*$k all. Not even worth worrying about.

    Yes, and the White Industries Heavy Duty Freewheel has been installed on my bike since it was first assembled nearly 4 years ago, of which my bike has now travelled over 30,000 miles.
    The replaceable freewheel bearing has failed twice (each time at around 6,000 kilometers or 3,700 miles), because i didn't listen to my own advise to change the bearing when it became looser than a prostitutes front door.

    I will say that there must be a difference between certain types of 6708-2RS bearings because the bearings ordered through SickBikeParts drop straight into the bearing receiver housing in the freewheel; without any fuss but 6708-2RS bearings that i have ordered through my local bearing supplier have "always" been fractionally larger in diameter, and need a heck of a lot of force to drive them into place.
    Now i exclusively order replacement 6708-2RS bearings from SickBikeParts and install it in the freewheel at 3,000 kilometers or 1,800 miles, because it guarantees me 100% reliability.


    This attitude will ensure that you make a stunning success out of your project.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  17. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Active Member

    The PDF shows two nuts locked together at the base of the adjuster rod, but only one nut below/supporting the rear mount. They did say something about making sure it all looks logical. I would put two nuts under there so the settling isn't a continual thing.
    Thanks for that link. I'm surprised, I don't think I've read that one before. I'm also surprised that the front motor mount doesn't prevent the twisting-and-settling motion.
    TBH Idk why I wrote it like that. I was thinking more about what it's like to pedal (i.e. with the clutch pulled in) when I decided I disliked the idea of strong springs in the tensioners. My experience with overcomplicated bicycles taught me to keep things minimal, and never use a spring where and adjustable rigid connection will do. As for the effect on efficient delivery of engine power to the rear wheel, every "flip all" adds up I suppose, even though I don't know how significant or flipping insignificant it is yet. Still, I think it's undeniable that measured power is unimportant compared to useability.

    I really hope so!! But I keep forgetting the questions I thought of, only minutes ago. :dunce: It's because I go off and read other threads that are probably only relevant to my "future third phase" and wayyy too advanced for me. :dunce: :dunce:
  18. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Active Member

    Now where the flip do I find a piece of 4.5mm thick rubber?!? :ack2: LOL
  19. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Not everyone likes the way i say things or how i deliver the message, but i do say it like it is, and if i am proven wrong, i'll accept an arse kicking without protest.

    Your logic would on the face of it, appear to be correct, but in practice it works the opposite way around with the Shift Kit, as i can attest to from personal experience.

    Unfortunately you are wrong on the first point but absolutely correct on the second point.

    The power loss is an absolute in the theoretical world but it doesn't seem to manifest in the real world. I have ridden with blokes who use a single speed drive system, and they get humiliated by my bike fitted with a shift kit.

    There is nothing wrong with being bat $h1t crazy, so long as your health insurance plan is supremely well capitalised and can cope with sudden changes of inertia when bat $h1t crazy turns into a hospital emergency ward visit.
  20. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Any vendor who sells rubber products.

    I must make a note that the gap between shift kit side plate and the seatpost tube might be different on your bike, so you'll need to measure this gap, or simply purchase rubber of different thicknesses and see which one works best.
    Ideally you want the rubber to be ever so slightly thicker than the gap, as it will compress over time. In my case, the rubber used (which was very hard rubber) has compressed almost 1mm through the force being applied between side plate and seatpost tube.