Water-Powered Engines

[golden_boy]

No alcohols. We are making aromatic compounds such as toluene and xylene. These are the high octane (90-120 MON) molecules that currently make up about 25% of the gasoline you get from the pump. What we are trying to do is make a fuel that is not an alternative like ethanol. Our goal is to make gasoline that is exactly the same in molecular composition to the fuel we are already using. However, the feedstock is biomass instead of oil. Ethanol and bio-diesel were the "first generation" bio fuels since corn and soybean oil are easy to convert to a liquid fuel. On the other hand the process of conversion of lignocellulosic biomass (wood, grasses, ect.) is much more difficult. It is still mostly in the research phase. So I guess the take home message here is: Instead of making an alternative fuel (e.g. ethanol) lets just make gasoline from an alternative feedstock ;-)

 

[HoughMade]

This is where the future is. Great to hear!

 

[SimpleSimon]

There is already a demonstration scale plant alongside a pultry processing facilty in either Arkansas or Missouri, which uses the offal stream from that plant (heads, feet, entrail, feathers) to produce something which is essentially light sweet crude. If my memory is correct, they figured break-even at $55/barrel for oil. Further "cracking" and differential distillation should yeild gasoline, diesel, etc quite readily.

There is also a very large hog production facility in North Carolina which has followed the Tillamook Dairy Co-Operatives lead, and is very nearly totally vertically integrated, with all of thier fuel/power needs supplied by bio-gas production in continuous flow methane digesters. In fact, like the Tillamook facility at the site of the former town of Antelope, Oregon, they sell surplus power back into the electric grid, making a substantial sum therefrom. According to the Tillamook Co-Op's figures, every ounce of milk they sell is nearly pure profit - they make so much money from power sales and save so much from operating the biggest dairy on the planet in a highly efficient fashion (60,000+ dairy cows).

 

[golden_boy]

I think we actually had some people from that demonstration plant out at our campus for a visit since we also have a group that works on biodiesel from waste oils. I think the company is called Dynamic Fuels and they take all the waste from the Tyson poultry plant and turn it into diesel. Pretty cool. I think the final plant will be built down in Louisiana. There is a lot of waste out there if we could just learn to utilize it.

 

[kerf]

Sounds great, good fuel and the smell of pork chops, mmmm!

 

[greenevegiebeast]

Golden, please keep us updated. I like where you are going. that fuel sounds very promsing.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Of the various biomass fuel sources I've ever read about, switchgrass is the single best for alcohol fuels. For total biomass conversion of otherwise waste products, the work at the U of Nebraska on grain straw/chaff conversion is really promising - the lignin crosslinking of the cellulosic components in the cell walls of grasses is more easily dealt with by bacterial fermentation. There is a pilot plant in early development stages in north central India which is focusing on bamboo processing debris, and so far has had some excellent results. Their first technical review article should appear in December of this year. The neatest part of their process is that it utilizes aerobic fermentation, results in a light diesel like fuel oil, and get this - the bacterial fermentation fixes atmospheric nitrogen in the remaining sludge. The byproduct sludge is highly enriched organic nitrogen fertilizer.

 

[greenevegiebeast]

Of the various biomass fuel sources I've ever read about, switchgrass is the single best for alcohol fuels. For total biomass conversion of otherwise waste products, the work at the U of Nebraska on grain straw/chaff conversion is really promising - the lignin crosslinking of the cellulosic components in the cell walls of grasses is more easily dealt with by bacterial fermentation. .

once again , alchol-bad, gasoline like substace- good, due to octain, oil wiping, and combustion properties alchol ls not as effecent a fuel. for example, talk to any one who folowes their mpg and who uses e85. there is a los of power and effency. In order to get the most of alchol based fuel race cars run a mutch higher compresion ratio. they however are not as woried about milige. when you hear nascar racers talking about milage they talk about 10 to14 mpg. in ultra slick light weight cars tuned to go at speed.

Moral of this story: untill we get a marketable petrol substute stick with plain old gasoline.

P.S any one seen a 38cc deisel????

 

[SimpleSimon]

gvb, I've no quarrel with your assessment. I have always said that alcohol makes poor motor fuel. It is, however, a near mature technology in blends with other compounds to make a "gasoline" (which is itself a complex blend of compounds) substitute. In addition, it fits well with existing infrastructure investments in fuel delivery systems. In addition, it is emerging as one of the single best simple carbon based fuels for fuel cells.

So, it has its place in the mix of emerging transportation technologies. Power concerns don't mean much to me, nor do they really mean much for the great majority of personal transport needs. Any vehicle power system capable of delivering 20-30 bhp to the road is more than sufficient for the great majority of purposes, and for strictly personal transportation, 5 bhp is more than adequate.

By that, I mean running errands, going shopping, commuting to work, etc. Going longer distances, the needs differ. For the great majority of transport miles, involving distances less than 20 miles and loads of maybe 100 pounds of groceries, there is no need for a full sized auto, as has long been known.

As a young man I owned a Nash Metropolitan, a Hillman Minx, a Citroen 2CV, a Simca 1000, and my personal favorite, a Subaru 360 van. A friend and I drove that van to Spokane, Washington, from Molalla, Oregon, to attend the Spokane World's Fair - Expo '74. It had a 2 cylinder horizontally opposed 2 cycle, 356 cc engine. With a full tank of fuel it weighed about 900 pounds, yet it easily carried 5 adults around town at street speeds. I frequently drove it between my family home near Molalla to Corvallis, Oregon while I was at OSU - using the backroads, mostly. You think getting run off the road by a cager on a motorized bike at 30 mph is scary? Try getting literally BLOWN off the road at 55 mph in a 900 pound box. That was fun.

 

[greenevegiebeast]

I know I liked you for some resion. One ov the favorate cars I have owned was a Trimph Spitefire.900LBS GVW. me and my pasenger were over the load limit by 150LBS, And yess I have been blown off the road in a car at 55, or shoud I say an over sized rolerskate."