Who selles the best Friction drive kit, for the price?

[u2seek42]

Well then sir, those 89 $ engine you might want to snap up 10 of them.

I see none of you have a bike bug, or if you do your keeping your opinion to yourself.

My bike is my sole transportation, it is very important to me, then again is my money, then again is myself respect.

So being ripped off by a person selling me junk or selling me steel and calling it gold, brings no joy to this old face.

You know the way you all toss around large amounts of money for so very little, you all should have just went and bought a moped.

This concludes the Staton infomercial.

 

[Happy Valley]

My bike is my sole transportation, it is very important to me, then again is my money, then again is myself respect.

Then start showing some, what I see is the opposite. Guys here offered honest opinion, but You didn't come here looking for that, you came with an agenda to promote one brand and put another one down.

I see none of you have a bike bug, or if you do your keeping your opinion to yourself.

This concludes the Staton infomercial.

You showed up with your bug spam Amigo on the same day, maybe the same person but the mods can check IPs. Saw the same thing on the other site.

 

[loquin]

u2seek42:
The YEAR they were sold for $89 was 1983!!!

A manufacturer is not selling JUST his time to build and assemble the hardware.

He is also buying and stocking material and components, and the cost of the money used carry that inventory.
He is paying for (among other things) machine tools/tooling & their depreciation, buildings/depreciation/maintenance, utilities, and other business overhead like shipping supplies. I'm sure I've missed other items.

You are derogatory towards American vendors who sell Japanese engines. There ARE no suitable American engines, in the sub-50cc class, that are available. B&S has a weed-eater motor that's being sold as surplus right now, but, it would be a pain to use on a motorized bike. Most weedeater/blower motors are designed purely for their application - they are NOT designed as standalone, modular utility motors that can be used in other applications. Because it IS modular, a utility motor will always cost more than a built-in motor, because built-in motors share part of their function with the overall product. A shared shell, for instance. And, a built-in motor's design is shaved to the bare minimum necessary for proper function... If an extra 10th of a horsepower isn't needed, the motor displacement is reduced until the extra power isn't there.

Most of the weedeater-type motors are throwaway - they are designed and built under the concept that they will fall apart in a couple of years. If an extra bearing isn't needed because of this short life expectancy, it isn't included in the design... and so on. Every part of the design is 'shaved' to the absolute minimum.

There are currently about 4 small utility engine companies that DO have good quality control, have a company that stands behind what they build, and are reliable: Honda, R/S, Tanaka & Mitsubishi.

There are currently two, or maybe three motored bike kits that have a similar reputation, based on what they have provided to the the MB community: Staton, GEBE, and possibly Dimension Edge. OF these, GEBE doesn't make friction drives. BMP WAS a friction drive company that many felt had good quality, but they went broke, trying to build kits that competed, on a price standpoint, with the cheap imports.

Contrary to what you seem to believe, if you want a quality product, you have to invest time and money into it; first, to verify that your design meets the required function; next, to verify that what you are building DOES adhere to that design; and that the components you buy, to incorporate into the design, meet your quality specifications.

Why do you think that Staton is able to offer a lifetime warranty on his gearboxes? It's because he has over-designed them, from a power standpoint, to their usage, he buys quality components, and he makes sure that every hole is in exactly the right spot. By doing this, he is able to stand behind what he sells.

I haven't owned any GEBE products, but based on their owners (the information they've provided at this site,) reports, I wouldn't worry about their kits, or about them standing behind what THEY sell.

Finally, I DO resent your implication that anyone who disagrees with your idea of 'best' is 'pimping' Staton, or somehow on his payroll. That guy doesn't even advertise here... As far as I know, he doesn't advertise anywhere! He doesn't really do ANYTHING, except build a quality product, and all of his business appears to be from references by folks who have bought his products. After all, YOU asked the question -

Who selles [sic] the best Friction drive kit, for the price?

When we answer that question with our honest opinion, you start pushing an old design, two stroke mb kit, and start slandering those of us who replied to your question.

 

[Esteban]

You started this thread with 10 posts & ask for advice from the more experienced. Then you have critized & ridiculed every bit you have gotten. I have owned a Bikebug in the past as well as several others,,, factory & homemade. You are wasting my time , & I won't be responded to this thread, again.

I, also think I know who you are !!

 

[happycheapskate]

I bought the china bike first for the same reason. I like it, but it was a lot of labor to put together and upgrade, get everything perfect. It is fun, but like I said, it was a lot of work.

I bought the ThatsDax friction drive next, and I enjoy it very much. I slapped it on my family ride bike after dinner and rode it the next day. I got the drive kit for $150, and a motor for $90. So for about $300, Plus a bike I could leave stock and still ride like a regular bicycle, I think this is the way better deal. It's quiet, it's fast, and it is simple! Worth every penny. I can ride this one in lots more places than I could ride the big "motorcycle" looking bike.

I like both, but if I had to ride across 3 counties on one, I'd pick the Dax and "brushcutter motor". It's relaxing.

$389.00 for a little bit of metal, and brush cutter motor, is a wee bit high.

Now for that kind of money I could buy a nice desktop computer, or laptop

How odd that the china girl comes with a motor, chainm handle grips, sprocket, gas tank, chain guard, and on..... and costs 130 - 150 - 189

So many more parts to make pack and ship, lots of metal...

Compared to a piece of steel with two bearings a roller and a clutch housing, a support bracket and a off the shelf motor.

Does not computer!

 

[Crosshair_84]

Well then sir, those 89 $ engine you might want to snap up 10 of them.

I bought 4 of them. I plan on keeping two for my personal use and using two of them to make friction drive kits for my parents.

I see none of you have a bike bug, or if you do your keeping your opinion to yourself.

I'm just getting into the motorized bicycle arena, having spent most of my time on actual mopeds. I came across those bike bugs and quickly ruled them out as an option for the following reasons:

90 day warranty: You have to be kidding me. I've bought $20 microwaves with a longer warranty than that.

No engine specs whatsoever: No CC numbers, no brake HP numbers, no torque numbers, no engine manufacturer information, no way to see what replacement parts availability is like. Even the Happy Time engines, which I also rejected in my search, are better at this.

Price: The are significantly more than a HT, but have even less information about them and future parts availability is even more questionable. A Stanton or even a Dax kit is just a little bit more with much more information about them with which to make a decision. That and they use commercial engines with plenty of information out about them.

Design: The Bike bug design strikes me something that is low power and low performance given how it mounts to the bike. I know engines and I know how engines will bend and break things if you skimp on how you mount them. Given that knowledge I have no confidence in how the BB engine mounts and far more confidence with how the Dax and Stanton kits mount. Chances are that a BB would be either be of so low performance I will hate it or it will break as the engine stresses the mounts. I think even non-engine people would see this, if this was not true then the website should explain why this is not the case, but it instead remains silent and hope we don't notice.

My bike is my sole transportation, it is very important to me, then again is my money, then again is myself respect.

My money is important to me as well, thus why I carefully try and figure out if I should buy by quality or buy by price. Sometimes buying what is cheaper is correct, sometimes buying quality is correct. Sometimes buying some parts quality and some parts cheap is the correct choice.

Example: I decided to go with a well known integral can manufacturer for my 77/44 that charges $800 for his conversion with the knowledge that I would be able to load it with cheap cast lead and be able to easily clean and maintain the can. More expensive to buy, but cheaper to feed.

Likewise here. I'm starting out with a somewhat cheap bike, $160, with the knowledge and expectation that the bike will not have the longest lifespan and I buy an engine and friction kit that I expect to last a long time and be able to take off and swap out from bike to bike as I break or weal the bikes out.

I personally find it degrading to my self respect to think that I would always buy the cheapest option, regardless of quality.

So being ripped off by a person selling me junk or selling me steel and calling it gold, brings no joy to this old face.

I would agree, that's why people are buying the Dax or Staton kits and not HT kits or bike bug kits.

You know the way you all toss around large amounts of money for so very little, you all should have just went and bought a moped.

You obviously haven't looked around at moped prices. At least where I live the only moped's you can buy for the price of a NEW Staton or such are 10-15 year old units that have their own maintenance issues and replacement parts that are out of production and expensive to buy. Ever price out a replacement variator for a Honda PA50? $100 IF you can find one. Rear gearbox for a PA50? Priceless as I have never seen one for sale. Winder assembly for a NC50? $100+ IF you can find one.

You simply don't realize how much you are buying with a good friction kit. Having hunted for replacement parts for moped's I can appreciate what the Stanton kit is. The foundation for a modular system that eliminates many problems. If I can't get parts for the bike I have the engine on I chuck the bike and get a different one to put the engine on. The engines are not moped specific, but used in a wide range of products, from bikes to weed wackers. This guarantees far better parts and service availability. If I want/need to mount a different engine I can easily swap it out with no modification to the drive kit or bike. If I break the friction kit it is simple enough that I can easily take it to a machine shop and tell them "fix this" or "make something that looks like this". Close enough is good enough here, not so with most moped's.

This concludes the Staton infomercial.

If everyone here is such a dolt, a possibility, then please suggest something better and back it up with WHY it is better. "It's cheaper" mixed with name calling is not convincing anyone.

 

[u2seek42]

I bought 4 of them. I plan on keeping two for my personal use and using two of them to make friction drive kits for my parents.



I'm just getting into the motorized bicycle arena, having spent most of my time on actual mopeds. I came across those bike bugs and quickly ruled them out as an option for the following reasons:

90 day warranty: You have to be kidding me. I've bought $20 microwaves with a longer warranty than that.

No engine specs whatsoever: No CC numbers, no brake HP numbers, no torque numbers, no engine manufacturer information, no way to see what replacement parts availability is like. Even the Happy Time engines, which I also rejected in my search, are better at this.

Price: The are significantly more than a HT, but have even less information about them and future parts availability is even more questionable. A Stanton or even a Dax kit is just a little bit more with much more information about them with which to make a decision. That and they use commercial engines with plenty of information out about them.

Design: The Bike bug design strikes me something that is low power and low performance given how it mounts to the bike. I know engines and I know how engines will bend and break things if you skimp on how you mount them. Given that knowledge I have no confidence in how the BB engine mounts and far more confidence with how the Dax and Stanton kits mount. Chances are that a BB would be either be of so low performance I will hate it or it will break as the engine stresses the mounts. I think even non-engine people would see this, if this was not true then the website should explain why this is not the case, but it instead remains silent and hope we don't notice.



My money is important to me as well, thus why I carefully try and figure out if I should buy by quality or buy by price. Sometimes buying what is cheaper is correct, sometimes buying quality is correct. Sometimes buying some parts quality and some parts cheap is the correct choice.

Example: I decided to go with a well known integral can manufacturer for my 77/44 that charges $800 for his conversion with the knowledge that I would be able to load it with cheap cast lead and be able to easily clean and maintain the can. More expensive to buy, but cheaper to feed.

Likewise here. I'm starting out with a somewhat cheap bike, $160, with the knowledge and expectation that the bike will not have the longest lifespan and I buy an engine and friction kit that I expect to last a long time and be able to take off and swap out from bike to bike as I break or weal the bikes out.

I personally find it degrading to my self respect to think that I would always buy the cheapest option, regardless of quality.



I would agree, that's why people are buying the Dax or Staton kits and not HT kits or bike bug kits.



You obviously haven't looked around at moped prices. At least where I live the only moped's you can buy for the price of a NEW Staton or such are 10-15 year old units that have their own maintenance issues and replacement parts that are out of production and expensive to buy. Ever price out a replacement variator for a Honda PA50? $100 IF you can find one. Rear gearbox for a PA50? Priceless as I have never seen one for sale. Winder assembly for a NC50? $100+ IF you can find one.

You simply don't realize how much you are buying with a good friction kit. Having hunted for replacement parts for moped's I can appreciate what the Stanton kit is. The foundation for a modular system that eliminates many problems. If I can't get parts for the bike I have the engine on I chuck the bike and get a different one to put the engine on. The engines are not moped specific, but used in a wide range of products, from bikes to weed wackers. This guarantees far better parts and service availability. If I want/need to mount a different engine I can easily swap it out with no modification to the drive kit or bike. If I break the friction kit it is simple enough that I can easily take it to a machine shop and tell them "fix this" or "make something that looks like this". Close enough is good enough here, not so with most moped's.



If everyone here is such a dolt, a possibility, then please suggest something better and back it up with WHY it is better. "It's cheaper" mixed with name calling is not convincing anyone.

Well thank you for your well written reply.
I have a friction drive, it is from livefast motors, it has been a wonder of simplicity, a joy to ride, and buying my gas 30 cents at a time brings smile to my face.

I also had given to me, a bike bug, to find it is as you described, to contacting the ONLY person on the planet who has them the parts and papers. Now this fellow is a punk.

He has spammed every site dealing with bikes and mopeds.
You have to buy his photocopies for $25.00 before he will sell you parts...

***

***
Vale

 

[Crosshair_84]

What a shame that a once great country, can't make anything worth having anymore. As went Rome, go we.
Vale

I would argue that it's not that American's CAN'T make these things, it's that the US government doesn't allow them to be made. The cumbersome regulatory environment that exists has the consequence of depressing wages, stifling economic growth, and making once profitable enterprises unprofitable.

Example, in 1914 Henry Ford paid his workers $5 a day with an 8 hour day, the highest wages paid for factory work in the world. Back then the US was on a gold standard with the dollar fixed at 1/20'th of an ounce of gold so the worker earned 1.25 ounces of gold per week. Today gold, thanks to government devaluing the dollar to fund deficit spending, is worth about $1600 an ounce. So one of Henry Ford's workers back in 1914 made the modern equivalent of $2,000 per week, paying no income taxes, no social security taxes, and no medicare taxes on that income. All for what was effectively unskilled factory work.

Yet even with those high wages Ford's cars were the cheapest and yet of high quality. Even though wages were half at non-ford factories, that still comes out to $1,000 per week of effectively tax free income. All this was possible back when electricity and refrigeration were still seen as luxuries. For over 100 years, relying largely on free market regulation working upon the capitalist system of savings and investment to improve worker productivity, the US saw continued rise in wages and living standards, producing the highest quality goods at the lowest prices while paying the highest wages. What changed? Government.

Government, in the misguided belief that they were "helping" the people has continually imposed more and more regulations upon the employers. These regulations often have very high compliance costs and are of dubious benefit to the worker or consumer. (OSHA for example. The rate of workplace injuries fell at the same rate after OSHA as it had before, yet it imposes significant additional costs for absolutely no benefit.) Those compliance costs have to be paid somehow and they are paid in the form of lower wages for the workers and higher cost of finished goods. Employers who try to continue to produce goods in the US find themselves at a competitive disadvantage to places like Japan, Hong Kong, and Singapore where those onerous regulations do not exist.

Though I suppose you are right, we are going the way of Rome and for the same reasons, high taxation and regulation, an all encompassing welfare state, and endless foreign wars.

 

[u2seek42]

Now that is funny, you've edited something and then stated what was said, so it was edited how?

As to politics, that is the art of lying well, what was posted was an historical observation...

Bike motor..... felt I should get those words in here to make this post... legit

 

[loquin]

I think the real problem with the question is that 'Best' was never defined... and everyone has their own definition of what is best, for them.

• If the only factor in your 'Best' definition is low cost, then the import kits may be fine for you. Again, they may not be. The quality of these kits are reportedly ... spotty. As the old saying goes - "You pays yer money, and you takes yer chances!"
  .
• If you want the best quality you can afford, but can throw a lot of time at the drive, machine your own channel, buy some good quality bearings, pick up a Chinese clone of a Japanese engine, and engineer your own drive.
  .
• If you want the best quality and reliability you can afford, and can throw a lot of time at the drive, machine your own channel, pick up good bearings and one of the japanese engines, and engineer your own drive.
  .
• If your definition of 'best' includes quality engines/hardware, good performance, and reliability, at an reasonable price, get a Staton FD kit, with one of the Japanese engines, and you won't be disappointed. If you can find an engine 'on sale' where they're surplus or a buyout of some sort, so much the better. Others also like the Dimension Edge kit. The cost is about the same.
  .