Blanket Federal Coverage for 50cc Ceiling - How?

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by gone_fishin, Aug 24, 2007.

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  1. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i have no idea if this will go anywhere...but i know a few of you are starting to get interested in a longer view...

    so, let's say a group wanted to try and influence legislation that would empower a nationwide exemption at or below the 50cc/2hp level?

    something like that would have to address epa-acceptable engines and motors, of course...but what if the main pillar of such a movement was an express willingness to stay under that ceiling...

    where would you start if you wanted to make the leap from talk to action?

    maybe i should just toss a fresh "48" on S-2.1 and head for dc? take several weeks and meander...see how many riders i could pick up on the way?

  2. beast775

    beast775 Guest

    good day augidog

    well this platform known as motoredbikes could actually put a dent in a new act or legislation,and you have a higher standing example moderator x 5? a overseer,thats all they the invisible act or statute makers need is a force of people,thats there worst nightmare is retaliation.youll never get a federal law,there the people who work on one knows about this movement so a moderator could show them thousands of papers to confuse them,thats what they do to us anyways,example taxes=bogus laws=bogus government=bogus.all they?want is a little money from the movement.and i dont know if its big enough yet.they dont care about safety of citizens or safety of vehicles,thats how they make illegal money from citizens,citations.quite an undertaking for sure,id help out as much as i could you can count on that!
  3. Truthfully I think It would have to start at a more local level....Maybe influence local law makers and work up the the state level
    like senators or delegates and have them lobby in DC (snowball effect)...Of course another option (although expensive) would be to hire a professional lobbyest (spelling?)....Or maybe a cheaper and still more easily done may be to make an online petition and have members or others give electronic signatures in support of proposed legislation...and forward it to the powers that be....I think it'd be tough and or expensive to do but it is probably worthwhile.....Hmmmm the "augidog statute"?
  4. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    that would kill it for sure :p

    i dunno, i'm about ready to just go shake my fist over the white house fence and yell at the bums and villians...stir it up in time for the elections...i know that'd be way more fun than a petition :evil: :lol:

    anyway...i'm the MBc forum admin...that doesn't mean i'm MBc...i'd like to see some more activism, and i'd really like some leaders to step into the light and tell us what to do next...i'm ready to ride, and i'm pretty sure she'd make it all the way there, that's my strategy...this nation hasn't seen a good people's movement in like forever, man :cool:

    oh, yeah! that doesn't mean i'm against an electronic petition, it just means i'm not your guy when it comes to leading that action, but MBc will gladly host it, u-betcha!!
  5. uncle_punk13

    uncle_punk13 Guest

    Good on ya' fellas! I've been talking for a long time, but you know what? talk is cheap! I can sit here and say this or say that 'till the cows come home but until I act up, act out, do something; it doesn't mean a dang thing.
    In another thread, I spoke of a petition, starting at your most local level, and following through all the way up to the top- at the federal level. Look man, It's not just a way of us helping ourselves, but a way of blazing new trails and changing the way things are going in this country...
    I, unfortunately have no experience other than marching in protests, and sitting in sit in's, vigils, and the like. How do I go about starting this? How do I get started? Maybe talk to Tim Eyeman? He's changed things and gotten voters up in arms and actually created changes...
    Maybe he can help give me an idea of where to get started...
    We need to find someone like that, set them on one of our bikes, and tool around for a day. Once they've ridden they may understand a little better.
    Augi, let me know when we're heading out on our ride on D.C.!
    We'll raise the flag and see who salutes, eh?!?
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2007
  6. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest


    i figure as soon as spring lets us get across the mountains...

    i have my flag that's flown over boston & was given to me by a city worker as i was passing by during a replacement...we'll bring it with us, eh?
  7. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    Starting on the local level and working up is the way to go. However, to be effective, you have to know where the laws at issue are.

    For instance, in my home state of Indiana, we have about the best situation you are likely to find among states with regulations: With pedals, under 50cc, 2hp or under and design speed od 25mph or less- no registration or insurance needed, riders can be as young as 15. Therefore, I and my compatriots in this area have no real need for national legislation.

    If a given state or municipality (or county) has regulations that provide a problem, take them on- not combatively, but demonstrating the advantages (primarily energy conservation). We are unlikely to gain enough juice to get anything done nationally. The only way that would happen is if the motorized bicycle industry was well enough organized with enough clout to make a difference. Meaning no disrespect, but most of the U.S. industry seems like a cottage industry that has not matured to an organized entity. It is much easier for individuals and small groups to influance states and smaller governments.

    If we want to really screw things up- all we have to do is act know...on our bikes. We need to know the rules and follow the rules. When I was learning to ride a bike- over 30 years ago, I was taught to ride with traffic...the same direction as cars and to use hand signals for turning and stopping. If we brushed up on courtesy- at least we would not give a reason to make laws against us.

    I almost fear greater popularity of this hobby as the masses and their elected dunderheads often seem all too ready to ban anything new or different. All someone has to say is: "think of the children"...and we'll all be outlaws.
  8. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    "think of the children!!" i love it...

    that's exactly what i'm doing.

    nice you feel about heading up/guiding a clearing house for movements at any level?

    i think corporate america and the petro-based government are playing right into our hands on this, so let's

    "Let The Solution Be The Revolution."

    a swing towards light 2-wheel transportation means:
    less stressed population
    physically healthier nation
    less litigation re: auto/health insurance
    way less drag on petroleum resources
    development of new small-business industry based in the USA
    real jobs with "meaning"...
    and so on & so on...
  9. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    Head up? No.

    Advise, yes.

    The old practice of law is downright busy at times...and now it looks like I may be buying a new house, so the present one needs to be fixed up for sale.

    I spend enough time on this hobby (obsession) as it is.
  10. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    had to ask, that's how things happen, eh?

    your posts are great, & i'll happliy take what i can get :cool:
  11. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    i know this is a techie question, but it's inspired by a legal issue.

    briefly (please correct or expand): "displacement" is about the working volume, no? well, on 4-stroke engines the entire stroke is technically the factor when determining displacement. on my "70cc" engine, the "compression" stroke doesn't start until the piston fully covers the highest port (exhaust)...the top edge of the exhaust port is 28mm from the top of the stroke.

    47mm bore X 28mm're not gonna believe what that comes out to...48.6cc

    is there some set of standards (technical or legal) set to paper somewhere that would clear this up for me?

    somebody set me straight, because my next engine will be legally under the limit whether i like it or not.
  12. Hi Aug,

    In the book 2 stroke tuners guide I believe they used the term "effective displacement" to describe the area that the piston sweeps when the piston covers up the both the intake and exhaust ports and begins the actual compression phase on a 2 stroke engine (the power producing stroke)....this is somewhat different than the "total" displacement than the piston actually travels or "sweeps" during an entire crankshaft revolution....As an interesting aside, it is only the "effective displacement" phase of the piston's travel that causes power to be made...and most laws read something to the effect that a motorized bicycle can be "powered" by an engine displacing less than 50 CC...and since power is only being made when the ports are closed I would say that effective displacement rather than total displacement be used in determining engine "size" thus I would have to say, on a two stroke at least, that the effective displacement is what should be used in determining engine size...How a police officer or court would rule would be interesting but I believe we can now legally run 70's with abandon! ;-)

    Come to think of it How was 50 CC or less made a standard?....If we are going to fight for a federal standard perhaps we could (while we are at it) ask for a higher maximum engine size?....a good argument could be made that increased safety would result by allowing a more powerful engine....better able to keep up with traffic....fewer cars swerving around the otherwise slow motor biker etc.....As an example, we have a twisty 2 lane road near Charlottesville, complete with blind hills and corners that many bikers like to ride (you know the ones that dress like they should be in the Tour de France"),
    Cars will often risk life and limb to pass the slow pedaling cyclist just to keep moving at
    the 35 (nominally....since most people speed there anyways) MPH speed limit....So in theory a faster moving motored bike could be safer for all (safer for on coming traffic since they won't have to worry about a head on collision as another drivers attempt to pass a slow cyclist, safer for the driver following the cyclist since he/she may not decide to pass the cyclist if they are doing at least a "reasonable" speed....And safer for the cyclist to boot....Win win win....So anybody out there for more legal displacement ? ;-)
  13. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    thank you, andrew...i didn't have the facts but i suspected i was technically correct. i'll continue using my "70" and start referring to it by its working displacement of 49cc.

    to answer the size issue with opinion...since we've already been handed a 50cc federal "sanction" why fight it? use it as our main weapon, i say.

    besides, the more 30mph motoredbikes we get on the road, the less the speed disparity matters.
  14. Alaskavan

    Alaskavan Guest

    Hey Augie, thanks for starting this thread. Made me think. My little town has a panel looking into the concept of "Peak Production" for the City Council (ramifications of decreasing supplies of oil). I should talk to them about making sure that local ordinances look favorably on motored bikes. They're a bunch of "Greenies" anyway, and so should be a good audience.
    Many cities down south have, or probably will soon have, such panels because of increasing impacts on city infrastructure of rising fuel prices. Might be a good place for people who are ready for an intro to activism from inside the system.
  15. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    is way overdue...time to take back our country and it has to be done right if we're gonna rebuild our global reputation.

    "Let the Solution BE The Revolution."
  16. quay1962

    quay1962 Guest


    people are debating these things quite harshly...lets find a way to unite the 50 states on this issue...