Honda gxh50 compared to clones?

[cruiser66]

Hi Irish,

I think the main factor here isn't so much the Honda or clones, but the gearboxes that are available specifically for frame mounts. None of the boxes currently available are good enough to fully exploit the performance of these engines. I currently have the first generation JL Hoot which I run with 5 ounces of 75W90. I like the box because it allows me to use a 36T sprocket. The vent hole weeping was unacceptable, but I was able to fix that. It runs warm, but not hot, probably because of the gear ratios. I would really be interested in a better gearbox than the Grubee or Hoot, then I would look into the GXH50 versus clone differences more closely.

66

 

[duivendyk]

The Orientals respect "clout",I used to deal with them representing a major US corporation,but as an individual you don't really count,your business card is what matters.There is no legal system worthy of the name in China,it is who you know that matters,this of course invites shady dealings.

 

[Irish John]

Hi Irish,

I think the main factor here isn't so much the Honda or clones, but the gearboxes that are available specifically for frame mounts. None of the boxes currently available are good enough to fully exploit the performance of these engines. I currently have the first generation JL Hoot which I run with 5 ounces of 75W90. I like the box because it allows me to use a 36T sprocket. The vent hole weeping was unacceptable, but I was able to fix that. It runs warm, but not hot, probably because of the gear ratios. I would really be interested in a better gearbox than the Grubee or Hoot, then I would look into the GXH50 versus clone differences more closely.

66

Cruiser, That's it in a nutshell. The question is more about gearing than the motors, both of which are good. Of course the best GB is one that has changing gears but then size seems to come into it. If you look at those little motor scooters they have a belt drive and the drive sprocket or wheel that drives the belt expands in diameter as it spins faster thus giving you a very different gearing from when you start off. So the drive wheel is small at low revs and gets larger at high revs and this is equivalent to changing from a 10T sprocket to about a 15T sprocket and at the drive shaft end that makes a big difference. I think the answer may lie in something along these lines.
I'm interested in your Hoot experience being about to built one myself. When I so unsuccessfully tried the wet GB in the Grubee I had a 4 oz 50/50 mix of 85W-140 extra heavy duty gear oil / stop smoke engine honey. Another Hoot guy on MBc failed with the wet GB and has gone back to lithium grease.
In your experience is the 5 oz of 75W-90 better than lithium grease? Also Cruiser, how did you stop the vent hole weeping problem?

 

[cruiser66]

Irish,

Running with just lithium resulted in harsh clutch action. It was difficult to run at slower speeds as the clutch would chatter and make lots of noise. I have not tried the motor honey or any other additive to the gearoil after reading your posts about the heating problem. Still with 75W90 with a silky smooth clutch which, so far, doesn't seem to slip at higher speeds. The noise level did not seem to change except for the reduction of the clutch noise. I took advantage of the fill and drain plugs as they must have been designed for a liquid medium like oil. The Grubee was apparently not designed to accomodate oil lubes. Here is the link for the "weep stop fix".

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?p=127830#post127830

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[MotorbikeMike]

4 Stroke Differences?

Hi Guys, yes I want to know about the engines, not the gearboxes. I do have a MINOR interest in the gearbox, but a major interest in the engine its self.

Some are mentioning to use the HS carb on the Honda, BUT consider this, the Honda rates at higher HP, and what part might thier carb play in that rating? I for one, have put better carbs on car engines for performance, haven't you?

I am VERY interested in Irish John's new comparison of the two units, as his expeririance will add to mine, when I get a chance to proceed.

I'm going to be in Oceanside for a good week and will not get a chance to work on the little 4-stroke, tho I have got a long-pipe ordered.

John, the reason that your bike runs better with a hole drilled in the back of the muffler is that they used a 2-stroke muffler on that pipe!

4-stroke mufflers do not have a back-pressure stinger on them! Look at a Briggs, Lausen, or even the little Honda or HS engines origional muffler can! The exit port is larger than the exhaust valve, and on longer exhaust systems the pipe usually bells out where the baffle is inserted.

This I will experiment with AFTER the stock performance is determine with the orig "can" muffler, and also the mid-lenght, then long pipe. I will then modify the pipes for good tone and acceptable volume, and retest. I believe that the pipe, once modified, will give at least as good of performance as the orig can that was dyno'd for HP.

I am really looking forward to this, but have had other things which HAD to be done for others before I could do my own projects. I have promised myself not to fret over this while we are at the beach for a week (DAYM, that won't be all too hrad to do, will it?), but when I get back, I hope to be able to begine the testing phases.

I DO have a Whizzer speedo kit, so that I can get a handle on what really happens, and I have long straights in the neighborhood where I can do speed, power, and accelleration runs. NO even tho this sounds like Bonneyville, I am really interested in GREAT performance, and easy cruise at 25, no real stress on the system at 3o, and peak around 35 on flat ground.

Does this sound like a do-able goal?

Mike

 

[augidog]

if you're after a kit that meets or exceeds all of our legal needs and quality concerns, then i say it sounds more than doable, it sounds honorable.

 

[Irish John]

Mike my exhaust is a full motor bike style one with long silencer at the end. There are no baffles in it. It was designed for 4-stroke motors but it was also designed by the Chinese and consequently it has a 2-stroke type pea-shooter exit hole which creates a bit of back pressure by itself - not much though - with another hole in it it sounds great and the throttle response is better but only noticeable when revving in neutral gear. Under load it performs much the same because the power is dictated by the gearbox & sprocket combination and that's harder to change. Soon I should have the Honda & HS on the same bikes and a JL Hoot on another bike. Unfortunately Bicycle-Engines.Com have run out of stock and I don't know another supplier who's trustworthy and can deliver to Australia. Any sugestions you guys over there - but only for Grubee GB & Honda kit?

 

[cruiser66]

Hi Mike,

Sorry for sliding off topic with gearboxes, but I wonder from reading your opening post if this is strictly about the 4 strokes and trying to compare and improve them or are you also looking into a better gearbox? In any case, these 4 strokes are so similar that if you come up with something to benefit one, it will also work for the others. I think your goals are doable. My setup already does most of your requirements and with proper tuning and adjustments could go all the way. I'm anxious to hear your findings. Good luck!


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[MotorbikeMike]

Wher are we at now?

Hi guys, 66, what are your cruising/speed comparisons compared to my goals? Your system is stock HS/JL 26x2.125 correct

John, same for you, cruising speed, high cruise, top end ?

Anyone else, please chime in with setip, easy cruise at 25, performance at 30, and top end at not over about 2 city blocks for a comparison?

My definanition of "easy cruise at 25" is that the engine, tires, bike, vibration, all factoirs are in what I will call the "Comfort" range. That is, as you are at that speed, the whole bike is "in the groove" I think you riders will know what I mean, if you think of this, get on your bike and look for that "sweet spot" where you feel like you could ride all day.

This is where our gearing needs to be IMHO.

Mike

 

[cruiser66]

Wher are we at now?

Hi Mike,

Here's my rundown:

Engine - HuaSheng 142F (stock)
Gearbox - JL Hoot (first generation)
Lubrication - 5 ounces 75W90 synthetic gear oil
Bike - 26" mountain bike
Tire - 26" X 2.125"
Sprocket - 36T
Rider weight - 225 lbs.
Cruise speed - 23-29 mph (5800 to 7000 rpm)*
Top speed - 31 mph @ 7400 rpm**

* absolutely no problem with 25 mph (6000 rpm) all day long. Engine pulls nicely for this
entire rpm range.

** average of 4 runs in opposite directions, GPS verified.

Engine rpm monitored with ENM model PT15E2 tach/hourmeter.


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