Clutch Motor squeals when clutch is engaged

[Frankenstein]

It's pretty easy. Go for it. Nothing went bouncy bounce on mine. The bearings were sealed in, or held in, not really sealed. Getting the lock nut off takes a lot of force, that is the hardest part of the job.
You could do with a small syringe to pump a bit of grease into the bearing through the grease port (little hole on the back). I have read it can spill/spin out onto the clutch pads if you use too much or try to get less pedalling resistance with a too thin grease.
I think, iirc, I was advised to re-grease about every 300 miles. There's nothing to lose by greasing a bearing that you think may be dry, even if it is not actually the source of the squeal you've been hearing. Everything to lose by just leaving it though, I would think.
I knew mine was dry because it was actually seized up when I got the (generic non Grubee) engine kit out of the box and started messing with it. After breaking the stiction I could hear the dry scratchy metallic sound of a bearing without grease. This was heard when turning the sprocket while the clutch plate was removed.
This is not meant to contradict the earlier replies but I did this on my engine and it seemed like a good idea to get it done early. I have not actually found a source for a spare clutch hub -> ring gear bearing.

Probably a good idea seeing how we never know how long these motors (and the cheap grease inside) have been sitting in an old wear house drying out...

 

[KCvale]

What 2-stroke engine kit did you buy?
Like a ~$80 e-bay WhoCares 80 built at the SrewU China factory, or something good like a Skyhawk?

These guys are taking about going down to 'bearing level' to fix stuff like a clutch issue?
That to me this is a bad joke and really bad advice to a newbie with a new engine without even asking what the engine you even have first.

Look KCpoloMan, I get the impression you want something to ride and not spend all your time learning how to fix the crap that never actually gets fixed and shouldn't need fixing to begin with correct?

I know a thing or two, built over 60 2-strokes so far...
http://kcsbikes.com/KCsBuilds.asp?motor=2-stroke&Drive=All

If you start with a good engine you don't have any of this s**t to deal with.
If you started with a 'bargain buy' the choice is yours, keep pouring your time and money into a POS that will seldom if ever be right, or cut your losses now and get new engine.

Hope that helps you fellow KC ;-}

 

[Frankenstein]

What 2-stroke engine kit did you buy?
Like a ~$80 e-bay WhoCares 80 built at the SrewU China factory, or something good like a Skyhawk?

These guys are taking about going down to 'bearing level' to fix stuff like a clutch issue?
That to me this is a bad joke and really bad advice to a newbie with a new engine without even asking what the engine you even have first.

Look KCpoloMan, I get the impression you want something to ride and not spend all your time learning how to fix the crap that never actually gets fixed and shouldn't need fixing to begin with correct?

I know a thing or two, built over 60 2-strokes so far...
http://kcsbikes.com/KCsBuilds.asp?motor=2-stroke&Drive=All

If you start with a good engine you don't have any of this sh*t to deal with.
If you started with a 'bargain buy' the choice is yours, keep pouring your time and money into a POS that will seldom if ever be right, or cut your losses now and get new engine.

Hope that helps you fellow KC ;-}

I don't think anyone not even the OP knows what the problem is yet. We're just tossing out ideas here.

I notice black (probably asbestos) pads squeal more than those orange pads (high temp or whatever, they aren't black dust crushed to the shape of a pad with white asbestos looking material inside) which seem to not squeak at all. I don't know why one squeaks more for certain but I believe oil/grease may be a small contributing factor, if I notice a squeak I burnish the pads into the surfaces by really burning them in at stand still. At one point you just feel the squeak "evaporate" and the pads really dig to the clutch plates.

A simple readjustment afterwards solves that.

 

[Motorman1]

search on this board - steps are listed in many threads

Thank I will look

The grease in the bearings might do the trick. Squeaks or rattles can be a clutch plate without a spring behind it, it's a simple spring that helps push the plate away when the clutch is used.

Can be very new pads burning in as well. Something I do normally on new pads or motors is start the motor and hold the brakes while slowly letting the clutch go till the pads start burning/seating in. Give it a bit of gas as long as the engine is cool enough to help really heat those clutch pads up. After about 500 degrees most oils and greases start to boil out of the pads and helps get that nice clutch feel.

Don't let the motor overheat obviously.

Set clutch arm tension and plate adjustment, ride it a bit. If it feels like it slips at all then ride around safely untill you feel that the slip won't get (or cant) worse. Continue this until the pads are bedded and slip is eliminated.

On a jackshaft this slip is easier to detect, while trying to pedal start a slipping clutch is very evident. At high speeds on both drivetrains you may feel like the engine is reving faster than it should for the speed. A slipping clutch will slip on heavy torque and at high speeds with lots of wind drag. Proper adjustment fixes both.

Thanks for the feedback, it has been very informative and gives more understanding to other variables which can be in play here.



I will undertake all these options you mention, however I think it might just be the new clutch pads as you say. Since I have no clue to what is ok sounds are normal part of break in, and so forth. I though it better to ask then have issues later. I went ahead and took the clutch cover off , removed the flower nut and clutch plate . Hope I am using right terminology.. I began by just turning the shaft with the three studs coming out of it. I did hear those bearings rolling around in there behind it. It turned very easily with lite to no effort regardless if clutch was engage or not. So I believe it is not the culprit.

In my next few outings I will implement the burn in method you describe sounds like a good way to set the clutch pads.

I did notice before I removed the clutch plate and flower nut, something that lead me to feel it was the pads as you mention as a possible factor. I did a small test with the clutch disengage, I rotated the tire and at the same time listened closely, being the clutch cover was removed, I did hear the faint sound of that squeak, or squeal which lead me to believe it might be the new pads them selfs rubbing or what ever on the clutch plate for after I took clutch plate off and rotated shaft I did not hear it. And as mentioned above shaft moves nicely in both directions when rolled.

I would like to know the best way to get a little grease behind that small carack which is I guess is the edge of the clutch shaft before it turns to the disk holding the clutch pads. I have seen mentioned by another there is small access hole I guess I am not seeing it. I read that one can just drip some oil around the circumference of the shaft and it will get to the bearings . So that is my next task to approach.

I did take out each clutch pad and wipe behind on the metal plate, a few of them did have a bit of grease as it came out on the rag.

I then took it out for a spin and it did seem much less of a squeal so that must have been some of it. I also think maybe dpending on how tight I make the clutch for adjustment as you mention is definitely part of it. and I am sure every time I do adjust it it is not exactly the same. I just try to get it to the point when I disengage I dont' have to pull the clutch handle all the way down so when I lock it I can idle easily .

All in all this is a great learning process and I think if the time is taken these engines will work great.



I am curious as I do a little more research just for understanding. So the clutch shaft its self has a inner and outer bearing right? But that is not what the rotating shaft that has the three studs on it, spins on? It has its own set of ball bearings just loose behind it that spins. I was looking up the parts or trying and I see the set of bearings for the clutch shaft but not the hub I guess I would call it (with the three studs coming out of it.) Hope this makes since.

 

[Motorman1]

It's pretty easy. Go for it. Nothing went bouncy bounce on mine. The bearings were sealed in, or held in, not really sealed. Getting the lock nut off takes a lot of force, that is the hardest part of the job.
You could do with a small syringe to pump a bit of grease into the bearing through the grease port (little hole on the back). I have read it can spill/spin out onto the clutch pads if you use too much or try to get less pedalling resistance with a too thin grease.
I think, iirc, I was advised to re-grease about every 300 miles. There's nothing to lose by greasing a bearing that you think may be dry, even if it is not actually the source of the squeal you've been hearing. Everything to lose by just leaving it though, I would think.
I knew mine was dry because it was actually seized up when I got the (generic non Grubee) engine kit out of the box and started messing with it. After breaking the stiction I could hear the dry scratchy metallic sound of a bearing without grease. This was heard when turning the sprocket while the clutch plate was removed.
This is not meant to contradict the earlier replies but I did this on my engine and it seemed like a good idea to get it done early. I have not actually found a source for a spare clutch hub -> ring gear bearing.

Ok great

Well based on what I have read so far and have done recommendations from Frankenstein it seems to be working better.

However I do want to keep it up and maintained. So it is good to know it can be taken off. So once that nut is taken off then the whole hub slides out? And the bearings are just packed in there? Yet I would like to take the lighter approach first if possible and grease through this port you mention . Not sure where it is though and by in back what you mean? I don't know even the right name to call the shaft thing. Is it the clutch hub? It turns and is directly behind the clutch plate? Anyway mine seems to be rolling nicely. But will use the advice of greasing every 300 miles. I agree on it can not hurt , better preventive then having to take it all out. And replace.

I did find bearings on eBay for clutch shaft but I am guess this is not the same as the clutch hub you mentions. They look like a ring it slides through the shaft and is sealed on one side.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

Ok great

Well based on what I have read so far and have done recommendations from Frankenstein it seems to be working better.

However I do want to keep it up and maintained. So it is good to know it can be taken off. So once that nut is taken off then the whole hub slides out? And the bearings are just packed in there? Yet I would like to take the lighter approach first if possible and grease through this port you mention . Not sure where it is though and by in back what you mean? I don't know even the right name to call the shaft thing. Is it the clutch hub? It turns and is directly behind the clutch plate? Anyway mine seems to be rolling nicely. But will use the advice of greasing every 300 miles. I agree on it can not hurt , better preventive then having to take it all out. And replace.

I did find bearings on eBay for clutch shaft but I am guess this is not the same as the clutch hub you mentions. They look like a ring it slides through the shaft and is sealed on one side.

Glad to hear that it's quietened down. Sounds like there was some grease on the pads.

As for the clutch hub (with three prongs) and ring gear.. They are separated by a bearing which allows them to spin independently. So it is only this bearing that allows you to have your clutch disengaged to pedal with the engine stopped, or idle with the bike stopped.
I have not seen a replacement for sale, though they do sell the ring gear (cog thingy with the clutch pads on it). So it seems that a failure of this bearing means you buy a new engine. Eek!

The hole is in the back, meaning you have to struggle to get that nut off and then use your gear puller tool to pull the whole clutch hub and ring gear off before you can get to it. I think they did that so it is less likely to spill grease out onto the clutch pads.
I was able to hear and feel the dryness (after I got it unseized) in that bearing just spinning it by hand. This was on my generic non-Grubee engine.

 

[Frankenstein]

Like I said, burning the grease out works great, a towel is slower. Pulling each one out? Ugh.... No, I wouldnt do that, maybe one pad and a towel in the hole against the plate, just roll the rear wheel and the plate turns with it while the hole remains stationary...

 

[Motorman1]

Like I said, burning the grease out works great, a towel is slower. Pulling each one out? Ugh.... No, I wouldnt do that, maybe one pad and a towel in the hole against the plate, just roll the rear wheel and the plate turns with it while the hole remains stationary...

Ohh man , you are right a towel is slower I just was in there ( had taken clutch plate off already ) and was rolling wheel to see where squeal was coming from . And thought since I was there I would wipe them . Again my lack of understanding on these engines shows , as I did not do the roll the wheel method you mention. I had no clue it would spin great thought , thank you . Now I know for the next time if necessary .

And the only reasons did not try the burning grease meathod was ....well as you said one must be carful to not over heat the engine , I also did not realize that was also for burning the grease that might be In there . plus I was worried I might put to much torque or something on engine . I wanted the to be a little more familiar / wise before trying that .

 

[Frankenstein]

I burn grease out on a cold motor, by the time it's at the normal running temp the grease should be burned/boiled out.

I put the front wheel against a wall or hold the brakes (little harder alone) and slip the clutch while giving it medium to high throttle. Just tickle with the clutch lever and gas to get the rubbing going, it's hard to tell if your pads are hot enough but I can tell you that you can feel it. The drier the pad the worse that squeel.

Just readjust the plate seat and clutch pull after.

You might just have a badly adjusted clutch and you get rubbing because something isn't fully engaging or disengaging.

Grease is a likely culprit when the clutch is set right but you still get slipping or screeches when the wheel is engaged to the motor. If its when the wheel is not engaged (clutch lever pulled in) and it still makes sounds like that then it's a plate that doesn't move far enough away (no spring under it or lever doesn't pull it far enough) or you have another underlying problem like a bearing is turning into dust.

I guess start with the basics and work it back. If it makes noise when it the clutch is let open to drive the bike then it's probably an under adjusted clutch.

 

[crassius]

it is also often the case that crappy chinese factories get half the pads a bit thicker than other half, this means that for a while you're running on just some of the pads until they all wear down to equal heights