Need Auto Clutch Help

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by casixer, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. casixer

    casixer New Member

    A buddy of mine bought a blue 2006 whizzer, and ive been designated mechanic. It has an auto clutch.

    The problem is that the bike won't take off from a stop on its own power, nor will it climb hills of any kind without pedal assistance. After you help it to 15 mph, it will eventually top out at 36mph. It has an unknown aftetmarket carb.

    I followed the clutch break in procedure, removing just the glazed areas of the pads repeatedly until we reached about 90% pad surface contact. When we got the bike with 3000 miles on it, only about 10% contact. Better, but no dust will ever be kicked up with it... there is never a time when i can feel the clutch lock up, as with other auto clutches ive worked with.

    The belts are not slipping, all slippage is in the clutch. The belts were initially slipping, but i conditioned and cleaned them, as well as the pulleys they ride in. Is it possible to put weaker clutch return springs in?

    Also, my name is Ted. Im 39, and i live in Los Angeles. I plan to build a Whizzer out of my childhood bike, a columbia 5 star superb. This is my first posting to this site. Thanks in advance for any help or advice you may be able to offer.
     

  2. casixer

    casixer New Member

    Picking up my own Whizzer kit tomorrow!

    Any ideas about the auto clutch? I read here that a Whizzer should take off from a stoplight on its own power... id love to make that so.

    Thanks,
    Ted
     
    klinde likes this.
  3. casixer

    casixer New Member

    Picking up my own Whizzer kit tomorrow!

    Any ideas about the auto clutch? I read here that a Whizzer should take off from a stoplight on its own power... id love to make that so.

    Thanks,
    Ted
     
    klinde likes this.
  4. WZ507

    WZ507 Member

    They do make different weight springs for the autoclutch. The light weight ones I've seen are ~ 0.032" wire, the mediums were ~ 0.048" wire, and the heavys were so stout that a Whizzer would never get them to engage. The heavies must be for a clutch run on a 2-stroke crankshaft (rather than a Whizzer jackshaft), where the clutch speed would be 2-3X that of a Whizzer.

    For an experiment I've completely removed the light springs from an autoclutch, and although it dragged ever so slightly in this condition, it worked very well and fully engaged. I'd try this as it should make a night and day difference if clutch spring strength is your issue.

    The medium springs take considerable rpm to engage (2,000, 3,000, 4,000 rpm ?), depending on incline, gearing, rider and bicycle weight, engine power, etc, so that might be your problem. Obviously higher gearing, higher weight, steeper incline and higher HP all affect the speed at which the clutch engages, because any one of these factors can increase the load the clutch must transmit.

    Keep us posted and let us know how you make out.
     
    klinde likes this.
  5. klinde

    klinde Member

    Replace the original auto clutch

    I have 2 2006 NE-5's, Yes they should take off under their own power.
    The original auto clutch that came on these bikes are not very good. The whole thing is held together by a rubber busing that will fail in time. Look on WC1maunfacturer blog. They now make an improved version of the auto clutch. Purchasing it is well worth it. To date it is the best solution for the auto cluthch that I have found.
     
  6. klinde

    klinde Member

    I have 2 2006 NE-5's, Yes they should take off under their own power.
    The original auto clutch that came on these bikes are not very good. The whole thing is held together by a rubber busing that will fail in time. Look on WC1maunfacturer blog. They now make an improved version of the auto clutch. Purchasing it is well worth it. To date it is the best solution for the auto cluthch that I have found. I highly recomend you look int this new clutch.

    The kits come with a manual clutch, atleast the ones I have seen. There is an upgraded manual clutch as well. I have not tryed it out yet.

    Im in the central vally near Visalia. I am presently doing some upgrades to both my Whizzers. Sure would like to hear about your future build.
     
  7. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    WHOA!

    Don't even think about buying the latest automatic clutch from Joe Lin in Taiwan, as it is "TRASH".

    As always he manages to make a good idea bad. The current version can't even be upgraded to work correctly as he still runs needle bearings on a soft surface. The earlier versions 2005 to 2009 can be modified to work [forever] by simply machining the bearing sleeve off and replacing with a real bearing sleeve rated at Rockwell 58. Once the bearing surface is replaced the clutch can be made to work very well [My 1950 Whizzer Sportsman will pull wheelies using the modified clutch].

    His latest offering has the mounting bolt recessed and removed all the support needed to re-sleeve the hub. He also uses a brass ring in place of the seal and the grease leaks onto the shoes [can you say SLIP]. He then cuts a groove into the bearing surface [easy to do on the soft bearing race] on installs a "E" clip to hold the clutch together and then puts a seal on the outside, how dumb, as in order to service the clutch you must destroy the seal to get the clip out. He never tests anything, just sells it to us dumb Americans, because the first clutches didn't work at all [way to go Joe, no testing prior to production]. After many complained he did install the correct weaker springs on the latest versions.

    All Whizzers should easily take off under its own power, and the clutch should go into complete lock at approx. 2800 RPMs.

    We are currently getting ready to make a real clutch for the new edition Whizzers, and will be made with AMERICAN parts [Max Torque clutch, and parts made in CA]. This clutch has been tested for over 1,000 miles and has worked 100%.

    If anyone wants I can supply pictures of all the various clutches used on the new edition Whizzers, including the new clutch we are working on.

    So far the best clutch available for the new generation Whizzer was made my 3rd Mel. and used Max Torque insides. Sadly there were only a few hundred ever made, as the cost was extremely high [many sold for $450.00].

    Have fun,
     
    klinde likes this.
  8. klinde

    klinde Member

    Your making a reliablee clutch?

    I sure could use a reliable clutch. I do not have access or the experience to rebuild the original clutch. I don't have access to a machine shop or have any one around that knows anything about Whizzers. My clutch failed a about 200 miles.
     
  9. klinde

    klinde Member

    Are you going to be selling your improved clutch? I sure could use one.
     
  10. klinde

    klinde Member

    Oh! Please provide what you can, pictures and all. I sure would like to get mine bike back on the road again.
     
  11. Racie35

    Racie35 Member

    remember Quenton is trying to sell his clutch when you make your decision....dont base everything on his bad mouthing newer whizzer parts......for alot less then he's gonna probably charge you you could make your clutch nearly bulletproof. Thats marlarkey what he's blabbing about rockwell hardness too.
    He has no way of knowing whether joe tested anything...he's just shooting off his mouth.
    If quenton thinks he has a "superclutch" he should call ford and chevy and get rich overnite. All clutches these days are copies of a few tried and proven designs. That he could do with help.
    Why people would send a 175dollar part out for repairs costing nearly as much on someones jibberish is beyond me.
    whizzer dumped him for a reason people here ignore.....mainly because there are some who just dont know bikes enough .
    Quenton..put your pics up they asked for....lets see what youre blabbing about always. Personally I think youre full of it but who knows, you may have a good copy. 3rd Mils are about the best,ignore that when copying ...bad idea.
    I once knew a fella that knew so much about racing chassis' no one would believe he could be had.......wasnt hard beating people of that mindset...the more they listened to him the more we won.
    People here remind me of that...they dont know but figure he must or he wouldnt be here . Its that tunnel vision he uses against you.

    got all that Quenton?
     
  12. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hope to have a new clutch in production within the next 30 days. The proto-type is in the fabrication shop in CA awaiting any upgrades. We already tested the unit and it works 100% and won't let you down. Please understand all the automatic clutches made prior to 2009 can be upgraded to the hardened bearing sleeve and will work fine. Just can't do anything with the latest units from Taiwan because he still is using a SOFT bearing surface and the bearings eat the bearing surface [what happens when you run needle bearings on a soft surface], and the sleeve can't be replaced on his latest unit.

    Just keep in touch and hopefully we will have them available soon.

    Have fun,
     
    jbcruisin likes this.
  13. WZ507

    WZ507 Member

    Well Racie, you must have been having a bad day and decided it would be fun to troll your way over and slander Quenton to brighten things up. There is definitely someone here that doesn't know much, and it certainly isn't Quenton.

    And just how much is Quenton "gonna probably charge" to repair a clutch? And how do you recommend someone make their clutch "nearly bulletproof" for "a lot less than Quenton's gonna charge"?

    Quenton charges about $100 exchange (if you've got a good clutch hub) to install an inner race on the clutch hub that will make the Whizzer clutch very durable. The race alone costs ~ $30-40, then bring it to a machine shop and see how much it will cost to have it cut to length and installed on the hub. Really eager to hear how to make your version of the "nearly bulletproof" clutch for a lot less than Quenton charges.

    Because Quenton has a cost effective solution for a clutch that doesn't work

    No, that's not malarkey, that's absolute fact. Bearing races typically have Rockwell C hardness of ~ 60, and that is what is required for bearings to survive. I've never seen a Whizzer clutch that had a hard inner race, although there may have been a few made correctly sometime along the way. This is what a soft inner race on a Whizzer clutch can look like after a few 100 miles.

    Soft inner race allows idler bearings to wear through.jpg

    In contrast this is what a Rockwell C 60 hardness inner race looks like after thousands of miles on a Whizzer.


    100_7192.jpg

    We're the testers, as Joe hardly ever tests anything. I bought one of the new Whizzer clutches and can verify most of what Quenton said. No Whizzer could ever get the clutch to engage with the springs it was sent with, and yes you do have to destroy the seal to disassemble the clutch.


    Quenton said he is using a Max -Torque clutch - how much clearer can it be said?

    .

    You have absolutely no idea why Whizzer quit supplying product to Quenton, and for you to suggest it has anything to do with competence of the subject matter illustrates how little knowledge you have of this subject matter. Your comment is simply mean spirited and pointless.

    Got all that Racie?
     
  14. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

    I think you got your moneys worth. Thousands of miles?
    On the average, how many whizzers have thousands of miles?
    Here, some get some repairs and then are sold.
    Maybe Racie has had a chat with Quenton, do you know? maybe Racie has sent him something and it didn't get fix.


    Ray
     
  15. klinde

    klinde Member

    Right now I have a couple of Joe's clutches. As I have stated one of my original clutches has failed due to the way it is held together. I am going to give Joe's clutch a try and see how it works. If Quenton comes up with a better clutch at a reasonable price I am game. I will keep in touch and keep an eye out.

    I appreciate all the feed back, and I am grateful that there are others out there that enjoy the Whizzer as much as I do.
     
  16. klinde

    klinde Member

    Sounds good. I do have 2 of Joe's clutches. I have ran it for about 1 mile. Seemed to work fine. I am always on the look out for something better. I will keep checking this post to see when you are going to start selling these new clutches.

    Do you know about any Whizzer events, and when and where they are? I would like to go to one and meet other people that are into these bikes. I have had mine for about 6 years now and have never met any one who enjoys tinkering and riding these bikes.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  17. klinde

    klinde Member

    Have you used Joe's clutch yet? If so can you give me some feed back on your experience with his clutch?
    What would your recommendation be?
     
  18. Racie35

    Racie35 Member

    funny how one of these goofballs always comes on here to fight Quentons battles after he spews a bunch of negative comments about something he's making money off from know nothings. That would be you WZ. youre trolling for him.

    that said,
    Im sure quenton and a few more of you know plenty about whizzers.. thats cool and if you can provide info thats useful to someone lost...cooler yet. I think you misunderstand my stand here. Quenton makes money off selling whizzer parts and repairs . Alot of these bikes are made in another country by someone he doesnt like...so what. Thing is he bad mouths the product he's pushing..only thing is he wants it to travel through his fingers first. You wanna believe whizzers were delivered with bad clutches only he can fix....be that guy.
    These are Bicycles with briggs and stratton technology installed or there about. Nothing special really...That not everyone understands either..okay. Strong negative statements to someone about their new purchase surely cant be taken as a helpful thing. Whats he promoting anyway? That someone just wasted their money and should send him more?
    and yes I do know why he's been booted....including the other forum. wanna know why WZ? do a search.
     
  19. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi racie35,

    Guess you need to do more research as Debbie at Whizzer is a good friend, and my dealership is in good standing. She got upset with me several years ago over my comment about she should have continued the NE5 when she brought out the new models.

    Not sure why you don't have anything important to do, other that trash people who are trying to help others. The phrase "get a life" come to mind.

    If anyone thinks I am making money helping others, you might want to do some research. Go to your nearest machine shop and see how much they will charge to machine the hub [remove soft sleeve]on the clutch and install the hardened bearing sleeve. See if,they will do the work for $100.00 total including the sleeve. Invest your own money in buying parts in large quantities and investing over 50 hours of labor a week and make a working clutch. I will await your answer!

    Maybe you could talk the machine shop into spending thousands of dollars buying bearings and sleeves to produce the new clutch [maybe not].

    Here is the challenge! Lets see you offer a Whizzer clutch solution instead of "trashing" others efforts to help solve a serious problem.

    Go ahead invest your money, work 7 days a week for nothing, and then I would consider your comments as valid.

    Just remember one thing, ALL my Whizzer work 100%, and I don't have to help others.

    Good news is: you can select anyone you want to help fix your Whizzer issues, just not me. Just think, when Whizzer owners have an American made clutch that works, you won't.


    Have fun,
     
  20. Racie35

    Racie35 Member

    I'm not on your Christmas list this year I'll bet.
     
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