Slippin' a WC-1 Cam Into an NE Engine:

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by Hal the Elder, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    HEY QUENTON:

    Got the WC-1 Cam in the mail today. The bearing feels a little "gritty" when turned by hand. Should I flush it out to get those North Carolina sand dune particles out of it?

    I can see the lifter marks on the lobes, so I know this cam has seen some service.

    Would you advise against installing it with the valve clearance I set for the Mushroom Lifters (.006 & .008), or should I go with the .010" clearance advised in the invoice?

    Finally...has anyone else ever installed the WC-1 cam in their NE engine?

    Thanks...
    HAL
     

  2. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Hal, I got "The Whizzard", a used 2006 NE5 three days ago. I heard it run for a few minutes, made the deal and brought it home.

    I've read a lot about Whizzers on this forum and am thinking about the same mods you've done, AND that same WC-1 cam or better.

    Following your lead.:detective:
     
  3. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Glad To Hear It, 5-7 Heaven!

    So post a picture of your WhizMaster!

    HAL
     
  4. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Hal & Oscar,
    If the bearing feels "gritty", you might want to exchange it with the one on your NE camshaft for now. If cleaning the WC-1 bearing doesn't solve the problem, send it to me and I will replace it [use a small padded envelope and send via mail]. The camshaft was removed from a "rebuilt" WC-1 motor I purchased from Whizzer, but I never started it, I took it apart and sold the parts. The wear marks on the lobes match every single used camshaft I have in stock and is normal. The marks on the lobes won't change over time, it is caused by the initial mating of the lifters in a new Whizzer motor. I use a WC-1 camshaft in my 2003 24" Whizzer Panther with the mushroom lifters and have about 2200 miles on it. I have a custom made aluminum clutch pulley to keep my RPMs low while cruising the back roads of NC. It is geared 6.5 X 1 and travels 30 MPH @ 2800 RPMs, so I needed the torque curve lowered, and the WC-1 camshaft helped get the job done.

    Have fun,
     
  5. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi 5-7Heaven,

    It would be a really good idea to read the posts about "mushroom" lifters. Sooner is better!

    This comment is not intended to "bash" anyone, any company, or any vendor.

    Have fun,
     
  6. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Quenton:

    Your check is on the way, and I'll see if I can flush those granite boulders out of that bearing!

    HAL
     
  7. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Hal & Oscar,

    Sorry I didn't mention the clearance. I would set it at .010" on the WC-1 camshaft.

    Have fun,
     
  8. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Hey Quenton,

    Yep, I read the articles and saw the pictures. I'll be ordering the lifters and a few other items soon. The previous owner bought the bike from Whizzermotorbike.com, so I'll give them the business.

    Myron
     
  9. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    That doesn't seem like a very good reason....

    Why wouldn't you give the business to one of the active Whizzer dealers
    here on this forum that give you all that great free advice?

    Like Quenton or MotorbikeMike? and there may be others I don't know about.
     
  10. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    For anyone who really needs to know, I pm'ed a member/dealer on the West Coast but no response. Quenton's on the East side, more shipping costs, maybe next time. I will share the wealth with all, abiding by Quenton's advice to patronize the dealers.

    For me it is an EXCELLENT reason to establish rapport with the original vendor in Texas. The seller gave me newsletters they'd sent him and I'm pretty sure they'd be glad to know that THEIR bike is in good hands.

    Next time I"LL CARRY the donkey.:whistling:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2009
  11. WC1 cam

    I have a WC1 camshaft in perfect condition. Who wants it???? I took it out of Screetch when I replaced it with Q's early high lift. And for your info 5-7 that dealer in TX will charge you FULL PRICE so bend over....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2009
  12. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Quenton:

    HEY Q.G.

    Using 2 screwdrivers, I popped off that gritty bearing on the WC-1 camshaft you sent me, and will replace it with the bearing on my stock cam. I assume it's just a simple interference (force) fit, so I'll just use a hammer and a block of wood...OK?

    Would you want the gritty bearing sent back to you?

    HAL

    (Gave Oscar another 10-mile neighborhood ride today...he now has 140 miles...people still stare and comment as I "whiz" by!)
     
  13. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Hal,

    Yes you can use a piece of wood and tap it back onto the camshaft.

    Send back when you get time. It is under warranty so I can have it replaced. Send in a padded envelope and mail [cheap], and I will send a replacement.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  14. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Okay, Dave. MotorBikeMike just pm'd me so I'll work with him.:whistling:

    And thanks for the cam.:grin5:
     
  15. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Quenton:

    I shouldn't have removeed that "gritty" bearing from my WC-1 camshaft...the grittiness has disappeared!

    I'll give Oscar one more ride to warm up the oil, then I'll drain it and perform a camectomy!

    HAL
     
  16. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    Hey Hal
    How did you make out on the cam swap?
    Jim
     
  17. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Jim:

    I haven't proceeded on the cam swap yet...I wanted to put another 10 miles on Oscar so I'd have 150 miles on him, then I'll drain the warm oil and perform the "camectomy"!

    It's been too cold to ride lately.

    HAL
     
  18. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    QUESTION for QUENTON:

    HEY MR. Q:

    I was just about ready to install that WC-1 cam you sent me, when out of curiosity I decided to measure its lobe height above the shaft and compare it to my stock NE cam.

    My stock cam has a lobe height of 0.240" above the shaft, but the WC-1 lobes are only 0.190" high. This means that my valve lift will be 0.050" LESS with the WC-1 cam than with my stock cam!

    I don't see how this can give me better low-end performance when the valve lift is restricted to .050" less than before.

    This amounts to "strangling" ol' Oscar!

    Hal
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
  19. Kep1a

    Kep1a Guest

    Hal,
    It is all about duration, cam lobe lift and advancement. You also need to check the lift based on center line and not lobe size but it is based on overall circumference. Cam lobe design is more of a black magic than a proven science and as such you or I will find it hard to evaluate with common measuring tools what type of performance you can expect.

    Seat of the pants or a dyno is the only way you or I can evaluate otherwise comparable profiles for the same engine. I know it is always a sacrifice in one area to improve another area. The only way to have the best of all worlds is to have an electronic camshaft comprising of solenoids that electronically control duration and lift for optimal performance at any RPM.

    Bottom line... If Quenton says it will improve the bottom end torque it will! How much is up to you to evaluate.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2009
  20. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Hal,

    To determine the lift you subtract the side to side measurement from the height of the lobe. I can save you the trouble and tell you the lift is .150". The average lift on the NE camshaft [not all are the same] is .185" ~ .186". In other words the NE lift is approx. .035" ~ .036" higher than the WC-1 camshaft. Is the lift the most important factor concerning low in torque? No it isn't, in fact the low end torque is more controlled by the opening and closing numbers of the intake and exhaust valves, and the "lobe centers". The camshaft profile also effects the torque curve and RPM level. An example is a camshaft profile called "box car". The "box car" profile has steep lobes [open valve quickly], goes flat on the top of the lobe and then travels down the opossite steep lobe [closes the valve quickly]. The "box car" is noted for a higher torque curve, and is a strong racing camshaft for 4 stroke single motors.
    So as you can see lift is often the smallest factor when looking for more bottom end. The vintage "H", "J", "300", "500", "600", & "700" had far more torque than the NE motor. For the record the WC-1 is almost identical to the "vintage" camshafts.

    Hope this information is helpful,

    Have fun,
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2009
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