8 speed motor-bicycle on Honda GXH 50

[alexander]

You speak that because of a gear wheel overheat have broken?
And how long without interruption you go for a drive?
Probably because of long work without interruption greasing is squeezed out from bearings and gears and the overheat begins. And if to go it is not a lot of with breaks - greasing has time to return to bearings.
I more than 50-60 miles usually don't go. I go not on Alfine 8 speed hub, and on SHIMANO Nexus Inter 8 Lite hub.
I have a friend who on usual SHIMANO Nexus Inter 8 hub without bearings (the cheap version) has passed 6500 kilometers (4000 miles) and at it hub has broken from the burst spring shifter. It has disassembled hub and gears were as it should be - there were no broken off teeths. Gears were in norm and were polished.

I think if to go with breaks and to grease the plug of times in 4000 - 5000 kilometers (2500 - 3100 miles) that problems as at you shouldn't be.

yes alekor, 'because of long work without interruption greasing is squeezed out from bearings and gears and the overheat begins'...

except that i think 'greasing can not return to bearings because the grease is too thick to flow back into bearings even with a long break/interruption'...thats why oil would be better because it is liquid and flows nicely and therefore can easely get back into the bearings (more like: being continuously splashed with oil)...

but yes, i travel often 50 to 70 km (30-44 miles) without stopping...and that often includes going from sea level to 800 meters (2600 feet) above sl...
meaning: if you travel only short distances the hub might last a lot longer.

i also need to clarify that the 3 shafts you see in my photo have worn first ...from lack of grease (they are worn quite a lot and that would have taken a while)...that then caused too much play for the gears/bearings...thats why the gears locked up and broke...and also broke the shell you can see in the photo...
otherwise (with enough lubrication) i think the gears would not have broken.

if your friends hub has no needle bearings and all other bearings are ok after 6500km then maybe the old hub is better for motorized bicycles.

 

[alekor]

Now I have completely understood - gear wheels were broken not by absence of greasing in itself - because of reduction of greasing the gear change mechanism began to work badly - gear wheels has jammed and has broken.

Probably at you is warmer, than at me - from it the overheat became stronger also greasing has fast come to an end. In New Zealand on idea is warmer than in Moscow.

I too, as well as you, often go 70 kilometers for time. Happens and more. And at me more powerful motor and I go faster 50 km/h (30 mph) - mean I should grease is more often hub, than is specified in the instruction.

Liquid oil in hub would be better, but then it will flow out from the plug - after all on axes there are no epiploons.

And why at you such big expense at Honda GX 35? 2 liters/100 of km (62 miles)! At me honda 35 spent 1,2 liters/100 of km (62 miles), and honda gxh 50 - 1,6 liters/100 of km (62 miles).

 

[alexander]

Now I have completely understood - gear wheels were broken not by absence of greasing in itself - because of reduction of greasing the gear change mechanism began to work badly - gear wheels has jammed and has broken.

yes...exactly

Probably at you is warmer, than at me - from it the overheat became stronger also greasing has fast come to an end. In New Zealand on idea is warmer than in Moscow.

true...good point...i also ride uphill a lot...more work for the hub and less cooling because of slower speed

I too, as well as you, often go 70 kilometers for time. Happens and more. And at me more powerful motor and I go faster 50 km/h (30 mph) - mean I should grease is more often hub, than is specified in the instruction.

Liquid oil in hub would be better, but then it will flow out from the plug - after all on axes there are no epiploons.

yes...but...i would still try it with oil and see...how much oil one can put in before it starts to 'flow out from the plug'...
or...one could also make an additional seal up out of felt/compressed wool (used in old days)...
or...make a special lubrication liquid up...that is thicker than oil...but thinner than grease
experiment...experiment

And why at you such big expense at Honda GX 35? 2 liters/100 of km (62 miles)! At me honda 35 spent 1,2 liters/100 of km (62 miles), and honda gxh 50 - 1,6 liters/100 of km (62 miles).

i made a mistake in my blog...1.5 liters/100km is what i use (thanks...i corrected it)...a little more than you...yes...but i do a lot of uphill riding

your dyr4ik.ru forum looks interesting

 

[Happy Valley]

Hey, Alexander, checked out the blog, nice work and a heck of a nice bike.
Wish we saw more innovation like that. Cheers!

 

[happycheapskate]

If you drill and tap the hub like in the video, why not use a thin grease and a grease syringe or grease pump, instead of liquid oil? (someone said the oil leaks out when the bike is parked). If it is just thick enough not to run out of the seals, it should be more effective.

I used to mix axle grease with motor oil to thin it a little, for use in road racing bicycle hubs. The first batch was thin and leaked out a little on 100dg. F. days. The next batch was a little thicker and remained in the bicycle hubs, even at high speeds (30-40mph tops) and hot days (100+ temperatures) .

 

[alekor]

alexander, and there was how a breakage of gears?
Interesting in detail! Has jammed a wheel? Or in hub something has crackled also the engine simply couldn't twist hub?
You went to a hill with the big loading or it is easy? Whether it is possible, what badly adjusted rope of switching (labels for 4th speed didn't coincide) became the reason?

At my dealer hub from shimano it is recommended to grease at strong loadings hub time in 3000 km (1900 miles). So be possible at such interval of problems shouldn't.

1,5 liters/100 of km at hilly district good result undoubtedly.

your dyr4ik.ru forum looks interesting

And you understand Russian? Yes, a forum at us interesting! Thanks!

Very much to be pleasant to me the film about your fellow countryman - the motorcyclist hand made moto (it is direct as you) - the fastest indian in the world. Looked it some times.Great film! The beautiful country at you!

 

[alexander]

Hey, Alexander, checked out the blog, nice work and a heck of a nice bike.
Wish we saw more innovation like that. Cheers!

cheers mate...checked out your blog and like the way you'r thinking...eg. regarding quality components...as light as possible...4 stroke vers. 2 stroke...reliability issues...human/ice/electric tribrid etc.

 

[alexander]

alexander, and there was how a breakage of gears?
Interesting in detail! Has jammed a wheel? Or in hub something has crackled also the engine simply couldn't twist hub?

because i could not look inside the hub before and at the time the hub broke...i can only think of the logical consequence of play in the shaft causing the gears to jam...gears ended up riding on top of each other...no room for for gears to go so something has to give...and it breaks at the weakest part


You went to a hill with the big loading or it is easy?

yes...it was going up a hill on a normal road with reasonable big loading...5. gear maybe...no warning...no unusual noice...running perfectly until then...and it all happened very suddenly within one second...no time to avoid it.

the play must have gotten to a point where the gears tried to skip...and the teeth of the gears ended up riding on top of each other...and because

a) there was no room for the gears to do that without putting pressure on the gears and they broke...then jamming in the shell and also breaking the shell
or
b) there was no room for the gears to do that without putting pressure on the shell and the shell broke...then jamming the gears and breaking them

i guess that if there had been no big loading on the hub the whole lot could have just jammed up and stopped without breaking the gears or shell


'Whether it is possible, what badly adjusted rope of switching (labels for 4th speed didn't coincide) became the reason?

no...all was perfectly adjusted...that definetly had nothing to do with it...i was never hard on the hub when shifting gears


At my dealer hub from shimano it is recommended to grease at strong loadings hub time in 3000 km (1900 miles). So be possible at such interval of problems shouldn't.

i had pulled the hub apart at roughly 3000km and checked it and regreased it...but one can not see inside the needle bearings without pulling the gears out...
i still think the main reason for the hub breaking starts with the needle bearings getting hot because of continously running the hub for one hour at roughly 40km/h (+/-)...and then the grease runs out of the bearings etc. etc.
thats why i strongly believe one needs to make sure that new grease gets into the needle bearings...a normal regrease would not get grease into the needle bearings...they are hidden



And you understand Russian? Yes, a forum at us interesting! Thanks!

no..i do not understand russian...i use google translation...but that translation is not very good...still, one understands enough for it to make sense...


Very much to be pleasant to me the film about your fellow countryman - the motorcyclist hand made moto (it is direct as you) - the fastest indian in the world. Looked it some times.Great film! The beautiful country at
you!

burt monroe...yes he is a legend...

your country is beautiful as well...just been reading on another forum about a motorcycle trip through eastern russia (the bam (baikal-amur-magistral) road...from Vanino on the Russian pacific coast through Komsomolsk, Fevralsk, Tynda, Severobaikalsk, Ust Kut, Bratsk and back to the Trans-Siberian Highway near Taishet)

..............

 

[alekor]

Thanks for answers! I will think as to arrive further. I will probably pass on Nuvinchi - (Rohloff 500/14 expensive for me though it too is possible).
Good luck on roads!

 

[alexander]

Thanks for answers! I will think as to arrive further. I will probably pass on Nuvinchi - (Rohloff 500/14 expensive for me though it too is possible).
Good luck on roads!

no worries mate...good luck to you also

i would just like to put up a link about the above mentioned motorcycle ride report through east russia...its not just one of the best ride report's out there...it also shows a impression of russia and its friendly, helpful, gracious people that many of 'us' do not often get to see:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533442&highlight=metaljockey