Building an eTouring bike.

Sidewinder Jerry

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
2,256
Anything over 750W is no longer a Class-1 ebike and virtually worthless to me. I want an ebike, not an electric motorcycle. With the right gearing that's still plenty of power to move even a heavily loaded ebike and trailer. Move up to a pair of 58.8V 35Ah lithium packs they are available now and will take you further than you will want to ride in a day. Although I have a total of 70Ah it's split between two 17 lb. packs. Remember that you will only want to use 65% of the pack's total capacity... don't charge past 85% or deplete past 20%. This will greatly extend the life of the batteries. That gives me 45.5Ah (2084Wh) without stressing the packs.
Here I'm talking about dirt not pavement. With a 1.6 hp gas engine that had a max torque of 1.6 ft/lbs it took a reduction of 55:1 to climb 25% grade hills with no pedal assist on a paved surface. The total weight (bike & rider) was 350 lbs.

Some of the trails here in Tennessee the hills are so steep riders are advised to walk a bike down the hill instead of riding down it. They aren't going to care if the bike has a 3000W motor if it can't go any faster than 10 mph on level ground. The only reason electrics are allowed is because of 0 emissions and no noise pollution. What I'm talking about building is for nature trails and people who can only provide a small amount of pedal assist.
 

B Bassett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
485
I don't believe a cruise around the park requires a single thing more than the bicycle and rider but to each their own. I agree with your last 2 sentences. My next build will likely be a mid drive of some sorts but with a freewheel so i don't have to pedal if i don't want to.
My "ride around the park" is usually anywhere from 20 to 70 miles and can encompass 5 or 6 parks. Since I only want one bike, the best all-around ebike) it has to be able to do more than the minimum. I'm pretty sure there isn't a mid-drive made today that doesn't have a freewheel (clutch). Maybe you meant throttle? If so, yes I fully recommend a throttle. Stay safe.
 

B Bassett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
485
Here I'm talking about dirt not pavement. With a 1.6 hp gas engine that had a max torque of 1.6 ft/lbs it took a reduction of 55:1 to climb 25% grade hills with no pedal assist on a paved surface. The total weight (bike & rider) was 350 lbs.

Some of the trails here in Tennessee the hills are so steep riders are advised to walk a bike down the hill instead of riding down it. They aren't going to care if the bike has a 3000W motor if it can't go any faster than 10 mph on level ground. The only reason electrics are allowed is because of 0 emissions and no noise pollution. What I'm talking about building is for nature trails and people who can only provide a small amount of pedal assist.
Apples and oranges... you don't climb steep inclines slowly on a motorcycle as you do with a bike. Also, who would ever climb a steep hill without peddling? I am almost never on any incline that I'm not turning the cranks,. That's how I get the range that I do. When/if there is ever any type of accident involving someone else and a report is made a 3000W motor will be noted by both the responding authorities and insurance companies, also rangers in National Parks are learning more and more what is and isn't allowed. I have had to remove my throttle at one park before a ranger allowed me to continue. There's no need to for more than a 750W mid-drive with the proper gearing, or to disregard any state or federal laws to ride where you want, but you do you, man. Stay safe.
 

Frogslayer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
2,532
The torque of electric and the horsepower and watts equivalent don't even compare to gas engines. Have you ridden an ebike with a throttle yet? You'll see what i mean. It's kind of like how our legs have so much more torque from a stop than small gas engines.
 

Frogslayer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
2,532
The no throttle rule is so stupid. So is the 750 watt limit. I wish the government would stay the hell away from our bikes.
 

B Bassett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
485
The no throttle rule is so stupid. So is the 750 watt limit. I wish the government would stay the hell away from our bikes.
Nah... that's wrong. There have to be divisions on ebikes. That's why there are 3 classes. I do agree that limiting the wattage seems silly, at first, they don't limit horsepower in cars. With the right gearing, a 750W motor can easily get a bike rolling at 50+ mph so what sense does it make? But when my bike is loaded and pulling a trailer up a rough surface incline there are times I would like even more wattage but not very damn often. It then becomes a matter of being able to still apply traction with bike tires. Again, I don't want a baby electric motorcycle. But I also don't want some moron on a 3000W hub-motor "ebike" riding amongst pedestrians with me. With no cost-efficient way to monitor speed on bike trails to b*tch slap offenders there have to be some limits. Stay safe.
 

B Bassett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
485
...I wish the government would stay the hell away from our bikes.
The "government" did all of us (ebike riders) a favor in the CPSA definition of ebike... people just don't seem to understand it. You can put a 750W motor (1.01 h.p.) on a bicycle and ride it anywhere bicycles are allowed, no tags, no license... it's a bike. Stay safe.
 

B Bassett

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
485
Cool ebike. đź‘Ť
I understand your love/hate with the trailer, but wouldn't it just be easier to put all that sh*t in a trailer and be done, than hanging stuff from every square inch of the bike?

Sorry, I never saw this question... and no it wouldn't be easier. 1st is just the simple space required, the 4 panniers would probably fit in the trailer by themselves but then there would be no room for the gear that rides in the trailer. 2nd... without the weight hanging on the bike a fully loaded trailer will push and shove the bike around which never works out well. Equally distributing the weight is very important in keeping the bike manageable. Getting everything balanced and logically distributed around the bike and trailer makes the bike more stable helping keep the frame and wheel flex to something easily manageable. As far as drag is concerned it isn't even a real concern at the speeds I ride fully loaded. It also helps to know exactly where something is when you want/need it. Tools front left, hammock and tarps front right, stove and kitchen gear left rear, clothes/hygiene supplies and tent supplies right rear, and so on. The trailer was designed specifically for being able to carry the 300W solar panel and an additional 2000+Wh battery safely. It's harder than you might think it to load over 200lbs. on a bike and have it still be an enjoyable ride. You also have to understand that the distribution of all that "sh*t" has been thought out so that I can simply add or remove panniers (or the trailer) depending on where, how far, and most importantly how long I will be riding. Once camp is set I just need to lift the panniers and bar-bag off the bike to ride single-track. A trailer is a pain... but a necessary pain if I want to ride in the manner and comfort that I enjoy.

Panniers:
Garage, 13.7 lbs. (Left front) - https://photos.app.goo.gl/wtBkagW4fbfQxnJn7
Primary Sleep System, 12 lbs. (Right front) - https://photos.app.goo.gl/s4ZwacKEVL7obUGv6
Kitchen, 14.5 lbs. (Left rear)- https://photos.app.goo.gl/WnqJj7b6UxGNSvjg8
Bedroom/Bathroom, 11 lbs. (Right rear) - https://photos.app.goo.gl/Psj6sHpoiy7jq3JY7

Handlebar & bar-bag evolution: Double-ended bar-bag, 6 lbs., Handlebar bag, 13 lbs.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/owx61e75m2nsSdjJ8

Stay safe.
 
Top