Buyer Beware! Manic Mechanic!

Discussion in 'Dealer Reviews' started by Waterfowl, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    Just wanted everyone to know about my recent dealings with Creative Engineering, Manic Mechanic or Jim.

    I ordered a sprocket adapter June 2. I was told at the time that it would be on its way ASAP. I PM'dm him on the 4th to change my sprocket tooth count hoping that it was not shipped yet. It wasn't. I changed my sprocket tooth count and thought things were going smoothly.

    At that time I was told that it would "ship tomorrow!" on the 5th. No such luck. It is now the 27th and no sprocket or adapter.:icon_cry: I have PMs that can back up everything mentioned.

    Tonight he "heard" from a member who is banned from here (rightfully so) that I was complaining about the delay and he refunded my money because obviously he cant supply paid for parts from his "shop."

    I want to warn those who may be thinking about ordering. Don't. I don't know when he will be caught up(or even if that is the problem) and I can assure you that he will not be honest about shipping time. At least I got my money back and it wasnt a $59.00 lesson but a free one!

  2. I will not get involved in a ****ing match over this...It is my Chocolate factory and the Oompa loompas have issued you your have been returned, financially, to a state of well being regarding your transaction with Creative engineering. Vent your frustration somewhere else...PLEASE!!!

    Originally Posted by Waterfowl

    Thanks for the refund. You need to better communicate with your clients. If you cant supply the part in a reasonable time you need to just say so.
    Things happen to all of us and it is understandable to be late. It would have not been a problem if you were just honest from the get go.

    Best to luck to you.



    You are certainly welcome...unlike other sellers of products; I truly enjoy giving refunds. I don't have any negative feelings towards those who ask for a refund.

    If I don't fullfil the buyers idea of a good transaction, then a refund leaves the buyer whole again...end of story...nothing left to discuss!

    I have to carry on and do the best I can to satisfy the orders I have...There just isn't any time in the day to pay special attention to one order.

    I don't have time to play games...I operate in a highly technical, stressfull, world everyday. I don't have time to discuss "MY" problems with people who don't have the slightest idea what I'm doing...a refund is painless for me, compared to answering emails and fielding calls from people who want me to push their order ahead of everyone elses. The orders are processed in the order they are received...PERIOD!

    For every minute I spend on useless is a minute that someones order is not being filled. The shop is noisey and I can't talk and work at the same time...WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND!!!!!!!!!!

    Contrary to what you may think, this market is not big enough for me to hire the personnel required to appease every aspect 365 days per year.

  3. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    Don't take money from people and lie about when you will send products. That is as simple as it gets. Everyone expects honesty in a business transaction. If its going to be late just say so. Don't say it will ship the next day if it won't. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
  4. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    waterfowl, I understand your concerns and I don't blame you for being upset. However, my last order with creative engineering was shipped quickly and I was happy with it. As someone who was a contracting officer for the government for a while, I dealt with many small machine shops who were contracted to make weapon repair parts. Delays were not unusual.

    Creative's sole business is not to make MB bike parts. I suspect he doesn't make much money doing so based on his prices and I feel he is doing us a favor by supplying great parts that remedy some of the weakenesses in the kits.

    You got your $$ back so cut him some slack. Shoot happens.
  5. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    You're right delays happen. I also suspect that you would be told that there would be a delay. Right. That's all I wanted. Communication.
  6. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    So moving this thread to the woodshed does nothing but let a poor vendor continue to accept money and lie about when if ever it will be sent? How does this help anyone?
  7. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Steve, I seriously doubt that Jim intentionally lied to you about when it would be shipped. Stuff happens - deliveries from his suppliers get delayed - equipment breakdowns, etc.

    He's making some seriously high quality stuff, and is running a one-man shop. Should he have let you know when the order was going to be delayed? Yup. He should have. But, given his situation, where spending time going through all the orders to communicate delays to everyone, meant that everyone's parts were going to be delayed even more, he probably did the best he could. Remember, the small parts he's making don't have a lot of profit, so he undoubtedly HAS to have a lot of orders to make a living. Which means a LOT of email checking to follow-up, and a lot of additional delays...

    When he found out that you were unhappy with him, he issued a refund. The tone of your initial post (and subsequent posts) was that he was being intentionally dishonest re delivery, that you can predict the future (that he will NEVER be honest about shipping times,) and you concluded that no-one should ever order from him again.

    From comments that have been made on this site, it appears that the majority of folks have been happy with him. (Myself included.) Yes, it took a while to get the adapter & sprocket I ordered in mid-may, but, high quality can often take more time to deliver...

    The reason that this post was taken off-line was that it was an over-reaction. Your order was delayed, and when you complained, you were refunded the money. Let it go - let bygones be bygones. There's no need to further punish someone who did the best that they could to resolve the situation.
  8. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    Like I said before at least it was a free lesson about who not to deal with and not a $59.00 mistake.
  9. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    not really - you were MUCH harsher than that.

    What would YOU do if you had 100 people waiting on parts, and any time you took to reply to 5 or 10 of them delayed every other order by the time it took to search for the order and write the reply? Especially if you were a machinist with [possibly] not a great deal of familiarity with computers? (in an early email conversation I had with Jim, he mentioned that he "wasn't good with computers.")

    I don't have a problem with you publicly reporting what happened on an order. But, for you to post which
    • proclaims that Jim deliberately lied to you re your delivery (you can't know that)
    • States that Jim will deliberately lie to anyone who orders from him, re deliveries (again, you cannot possibly know that)
    • Advises that no one should ever order from him (based upon one instance)
    is an overreaction, given what everyone else has reported, and is unfair to Jim, and potentially, to others who may not have an urgent need for the part, but who DO need a high quality part.

    If the post had stated: you had ordered the adapter, changed the order and were told that it should ship the next day, and three weeks later it still wasn't. When the vendor became aware that the order had not been filled and that you were complaining about it, he refunded your money. The order was not delivered in a timely manner, and that others should be aware that delivery might take some time and that communication/follow-up may be 'iffy.' Then, it would still be up.

    Had there been a history of others experiencing similar problems, then a milder version of your original post would still be online.

    But, one case does not a vendor convict. Especially, in this one case, where the vendor tried to make it right by fully refunding the buyer's money. The original post was a forum equivalent of a tarring & feathering. Of a lynch mob of one.

    We don't expect perfection. But, in a review, we do expect that you are fair. In this case though, the tone of the original post, and follow-ups, was way out of line. I didn't move this thread here, but I can see why it was done.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  10. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    Over it. Sugar coat it all you want. If you want to see the emails you can.

    "Go's out tomorrow.!" Almost a month later it still hasnt been shipped. Thats not a mistake. Honesty goes a long way in business.
  11. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    LOL Biken Stins posted on Jim's User CP page about his order being 6 weeks late and how he's had no communication. Its not an isolated incident. I guess it might seem that way if all complaints get moved and/or deleted. LOL
  12. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    He said there wasn't a reply to his last email. Not "no communication."

    And, as I said, this is the only complaint that I'd seen. The only problem was, it was a lynching - not a complaint. Had it not been a lynching, it would still be public.
  13. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

  14. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    He's stopped taking orders so he can catch up. Finally a smart business decision from the guy. Best of luck!
  15. Tom

    Tom Active Member

    Because you made the decision to engage in vendor activities, you gave up your right to review other vendors. Only non-vendors can review vendors around here. Vendors reviewing vendors opens up too much room for bias.
  16. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    I'm over it. He did give me my money back and he has decided to stop taking orders until he catches up so no one besides the people with pending orders will have to be treated like I was.

    As far as the vendor reviewing vendor "rule". He sells sprocket adapters and upgrades for Two-strokes. Of course, I sell neither so my review has nothing to do with being a vendor and its petty to even bring that up.
  17. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    again, you're making the assumption that everyone else has been "treated like I was."

    That really doesn't seem to be the case.
  18. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    O.K Not every single person who has ever ordered anything form the guy has been treated like I was. He has now stopped taking orders because of complaints like mine. Good. My intention was to warn people that he can not fill orders now and it would not be wise to order. Obviously, he told me that he would send the order out and did not have any intention to do so.

    It is not an isolated incident and I have pointed out Biken Stins. Also Butch made reference in his thread to being told the part would be shipped and it took over a month to get there. I know of another but when I list him here the guy will probaly not fill his order so I don't want to be the cause of that.

    I will be cordial and say I could have worded my original post differently. I'm not sure it would have been treated any other way but I'll never know.
  19. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    I have to tell you, I don't have a problem with that. The adapters are custom machined to fit your hub. They take time. He's not going to set up to run one adapter unless there aren't any other orders - he's going to accumulate several orders (at least) so that he can do one setup and then machine them all in one run. Many people understand that custom machining takes time, and don't have a problem if it takes time, so long as they get a quality product.

    If that was the content of the post, the post would still be public. It wasn't.

    "Buyer Beware" in the title. "he will not be honest about shipping time." "at least I got my money back." "I want to warn those who may be thinking about ordering. Don't."

    When combined in one post, this is a very strongly worded warning against anyone buying anything from him.

    I can understand that you were disappointed that he didn't ship when he told you he would. But, there absolutely no way for you to know that he intentionally lied to you. Nor is there any way that you could emphatically state: "he will not be honest about shipping time." Even though I didn't take that course on "tarot reading," I kind of doubt that there's truly any way to tell the future...

    And, some people may not be in a hurry, so where would be the problem be if they ordered? Also, remember that skyliner ordered, and got his order quickly.

    See above. It's not obvious at all. Any number of things could have caused that. Have you NEVER told someone that you could get something done and then not been able to do so? If you have EVER not been able to get something done when you said, then YOU must be a liar!

    Again, predicting the future... There is not much evidence that Jim spends much time online. (been a member here for 7 months, and has less than 50 posts. That's about 1.5 posts a week. You said yourself that he had to be told by someone else that this thread even existed. Nor is there any evidence that he holds a grudge.

    This whole thread was moved to the woodshed forum, which is NOT public. Only the original poster (you) and the mods/admins have access to this thread. So, he's not going to see this thread again.

    Another point. Butch mentions on 5/25 that "it's been a month now. Sure hope it's worth the wait." A week later, he received the adapter & sprocket, installed them, and says "Chain tension is even all the way around. Very smooth and comfortable ride." So, it took 5 weeks to get the part and install it. But, that means that, like me, he had to have ordered the adapter back when they weren't in stock... So, it doesn't support your notion that it always takes a long time and CE intentionally lies about delivery.

    Look. If an unbiased person were to stand back, and take a look at this thread, it really would appear that, rather than CE holding a grudge, it's more likely that you do. And, that's what I've been trying to get across.

    Let it go, and we can get on with it. There was a mis-communication, and your order got delayed. When you complained, your money got refunded. Life's too short to be holding on to grudges.
  20. Waterfowl

    Waterfowl MBc-Sponsor

    Next time read the thread before you make up your mind about what is going on.

    Jim did not see my complaint here. He didnt read it anywhere. One of your favorite ex-members called him and told him I was complaining about shipping. So he refunded my money without contacting me to even ask about the validity of my complaints. The guy runs a little shop by himself mind you, doesnt keep in contact with anyone, and is so far over his head that now he cant take any orders at all.

    Once again and I repeat: I am glad that it was a free lesson on who will not be honest about the business they conduct. I guess it takes experience in business to realize this. I won't fault you for your deficiency.