Helmet Law fought- Salt Lake plus other info

[arceeguy]

I would also like to add that an armored motorcycle jacket is also a good idea. While head injury is a major concern, road rash is quite nasty too. Injuries of this type are treated like third degree burns and are very,very painful.

Hey maybe laws should be passed to mandate abrasion resistant armored jackets on bicyclists and motorcyclists! Think of all the lives that can be saved!

 

[JemmaUK]

I would also like to add that an armored motorcycle jacket is also a good idea. While head injury is a major concern, road rash is quite nasty too. Injuries of this type are treated like third degree burns and are very,very painful.

Hey maybe laws should be passed to mandate abrasion resistant armored jackets on bicyclists and motorcyclists! Think of all the lives that can be saved!

I got a riding hat which I use as a helmet on my bike. Its much tougher than the 50% air bike helmets and has a polycarbonate shell as well as almost an inch of padding all round... they are cheap, strong, and there are many designs that now ape a motorcycle open helm type lid

I have also, thanks to my partner Sasha, found out about riding body protectors. They are an inch all round body-molding foam the extends all the way across the torso, down to the base of the spine and fasten with velcro/zips etc. they are designed to take both falls, and kicks from a horse.

When I was at school, there was a girl who was a keen rider - had a bad fall and the horse couldnt stop and stepped on her chest - apparently put a foot through her heart. If she had been wearing one of these protectors she may still be alive today.

There are people whom I consider friends on here - I have never used that term lightly. I wouldnt want to see them hurt or worse because they are stubborn.

But there is another point... what about the person driving the car that accidentally pulls out or doesnt see you.. or accidently cuts you up so you hit that pothole and use your head to stop?

Its not just you that gets hurt - its your family and your friends and the family and friends of the others involved.

Would you like your 8 or 9 year old daughter to come home from school to her mum or dad in the ER or worse? or would you like them to see the aftermath of what happens when someone else doesnt wear a helmet?

Brains are supposed to be inside your head, not a new form of modern art all over the bonnet of a Toyota....

Jemma xx

 

[arceeguy]

I was totally serious about the jacket, but sarcastic about the law mandating them.
My jacket is by alpinestars, and is mesh to allow a lot of air flow - but I doubt I'd want to pedal a bike on a hot day wearing it. If you are running 100% motored, with pedals for backup, the jacket is a great idea. You're right, you can never tell when you may get in a tangle with a car!

 

[sparky]

I don't like my tax dollars being spent on treating illegal immigrants in our hospitals either. I don't like my tax dollars going to feed, cloth and educate the children of illegals. I don't like paying the highest property taxes in the nation to fund a mediocre (at best) public education system even if I choose send my kid to a private school.

It's all crud. The government needs to stop taking my money, stop wasting it on crud when it could be promoting new industries or technologies instead, stop telling me what to do when I'm not harming someone else, etc.

As mentioned before, the medical treatment of obese people most likely poses far more of a burden to insurance companies and publicly funded health care. Maybe there should be a law that makes it illegal to be fat, this would save taxpayers huge amounts of money.

I was actually thinking about this since reading near the start of this thread... Japan made some kinda law where they would fine businesses who employed "obese" people. The rule was men must have 33.5" waistline, while women were allowed a 35.5" wastline. I like the idea, honestly.

We should also fine people who smoke cigarettes, too. Matter of fact, if we're gonna make people wear helmets and seat belts, we might as well just make selling tobacco illegal, right? I'm DEFINITELY for that. Nothing would make me happier than if our hypocritical government admitted it didn't care about your safety or just admitted you should be allowed to do whatever you like so long as you're not harming someone else (that was their sole purpose once upon a time, but we let them get a little outta control).

I don't have any problems with hospitals sending bills to the uninsured patient or their family if they must treat them by law. You can't run around with a cell phone, cable TV, playstation video game, high speed internet, and a new car payment and tell me that you can't afford health insurance. There are many people that aren't insured because they choose to have all of the above (and more) instead of a basic plan to cover catastrophic events.

Ya see... my mom works for a non-profit organization. She'd have to pay approximately $500 a month (much higher than I previously thought), which she cannot afford. And even if she did need surgery or something, it'd cost about $8,000... which is what the ins. company would take in just over 1 year!! Plus they'd prolly still make her pay a deductible! The real problem is how the medical prices in this country are outta control, everybody knows it, but we keep doing the same thing we were doing the day before.

And she's not buying things like PS3s, Xbox 360s, and we've both had the same cars for about 8 years... she has to pay for electricity, gas, food, etc. We don't get that much entertainment money nowadays. The prices the ins. companies offer her are astounding. That's why Barack's plan to simply allow everyone the same rates as government officials receive for health insurance is the best thing going for hard working people like my mother.

If everyone bought insurance, the cost would plummet.

Hopefully, but still doubtful. Once a specific company or even an entire industry knows they can get a certain price out of you, there is no incentive for them to drop it. Maybe if there is competition... but in oligopolies where the companies are all on one side against the individuals, we have no hope for lowered prices no matter what. Then the doctors make up excuses about how too many children are coming in for the common cold, they don't have enough staff to get to the people who need the most help, etc.

Our country's medical system is in a lose-lose situation. We need a one-party pay all system like Canada, and get rid of the insurance companies.

This got way off topic (as usual for me), but here's my issues with my state's laws that are relevant to this thread...

I can ride a bicycle with no helmet! I have ridden a bicycle with no helmet and got in a pretty serious accident doing something st00pit. I still have no interest in wearing a helmet while traveling less than 20mph.

In a vehicle, I must wear a seatbelt. I do not do this unless I am on a highway or interstate. I am very aware of where I'm driving & my seatbelt. On a 1/4 mile trip to the gas station one day, I got stopped in a road block and was given a ticket for no seatbelt. Never once did I get above 20mph. I pointed to my house and to where I was going, asking the cop if he thought it was right that he needs to take my money for driving this distance. He did look a little shamed, but of course he has to say, "It's the law!"

Eff all laws that don't protect me from others. I want security from other countries and other lunatics like drunk drivers, murders, rapists, child molestors, thiefs, etc... All other laws need to be shoved up each congressman's boothole.

 

[SimpleSimon]

You know, the point about being overweight and the attendant costs associated is valid.

Guess what? There is zero need for legislation to address that issue, as the authority to do so already exists. It's called third party payor systems for insurance - mostly through your employers. Any employer may, at their sole discretion, arrange that insurance premiums charged through to the employee are on a sliding scale, controlled by relative degree of obesity. It is perfectly legal to do so, and at least some companies in fact do just that.

What my last employer did was an example - for employees with 5 years or more on the job, health insurance was paid by the company, so long as your weight was within 10% of a medically determined optimum (which your Dr was required to report to the insurance company at each - required - annual physical). Exceed that margin of 10%, and for each 5% you were overweight, you paid 10% of the cost to the company of the insurance plan. Get to 35% overweight or more, and the company insurance was no longer available directly - you could join the group plan, but the group rates were NOT in effect.

According to the USSC, it is perfectly legal, as the company has a legitimate financial interest in reducing medical costs, sick days taken, etc. That was 6 years ago - from what I've read, an ever-increasing number of companies have begun using some variation on such plans.

As for government single-party payor systems such as Canada has, I have a question for you. What is the single best-run, most efficient and responsive government program you are aware of? That is the absolute best you can hope for from any such national health system, and the fact of the matter is, it isn't likely to be run anywhere close to that well.

Do you really want the equivalent of a DMV clerk deciding whether or not you get the care you seek?

 

[arceeguy]

Simon (who isn't so simple!) has it nailed! What government entitlement program has been successful and cost effective? Before they go giving out health care for everyone, they should really work on the existing programs that we pump billions into - and that still isn't enough. Its bad enough the public pays for "gold plans" for government employees, but it will be impossible to offer that to everyone. When the "government pays", EVERYONE pays - well, everyone that pays taxes. Seems that everyone wants to get more than they give when it comes to health "insurance". As far as the government "investing" in alternative energy, I say HOGWASH! Let the free market develop the next revolutionary energy source. The Princeton Plasma Physics lab is not far from me, and they employ a whole lot of people. They've been working on nuclear fusion power forever it seems. They've pumped millions of taxpayers dollars down that rat hole and we've gotten bupkis. I say shut it down and save the money, problem is that if they close the facility, they'll find another way to spend it - and more.

I don't really think this thread has gotten too far off topic because helmet laws are just the government intruding a little more into your personal liberties.

Great discussion though!

 

[SimpleSimon]

My point of view is pretty simple - I DO NOT like government interference in my life.

I DO recognize that some is warranted. IMO, helmet laws are warranted - far too many have demonstrated over the last century plus that regardless of the risks inherent in riding a speeding object balanced by gyroscopic forces and bodily movements, they simply WILL NOT acknowledge the reality that S**t happens, and Murphy Rules.

I don't like paying for their stupidity and selfishness.

 

[sparky]

Guess what? There is zero need for legislation to address that issue, as the authority to do so already exists. It's called third party payer systems for insurance - mostly through your employers. Any employer may, at their sole discretion,
Arrange that insurance premiums charged through to the employee are on a sliding scale, controlled by relative degree of obesity. It is perfectly legal to do so, and at least some companies in fact do just that.

As already stated, "third party payer system" means my mother has to pay $500+ a month, buddy!!! What's good about the middle man in 2008? Give everybody fair prices, and perhaps everyone will pay? Or let's keep our corrupt system where so many people in the middle don't care that you'll never get the help you paid for.

Or better yet, the US just drops all forms of taxes besides exicse taxes, like $8/gal on gas, $6/pack on cigarettes, $11/gal on a 12-pack or something like that. Forget a flat tax, sales tax, property tax, etc.... we could do it, and we need big change like this now.

As for government single-party payer systems such as Canada has, I have a question for you. What is the single best-run, most efficient and responsive government program you are aware of? That is the absolute best you can hope for from any such national health system, and the fact of the matter is, it isn't likely to be run anywhere close to that well.

As far as I know, America treats like you with good nature. Bat that's all they give you. Once you're done, you get a bill for a $2500 ambulance ride, and $600 blankets. Sure, America's the best. But they're the best shaft in my rear, because they weren't anywhere near the best value.

Do you really want the equivalent of a DMV clerk deciding whether or not you get the care you seek?

If the DMV clerk doesn't need to see my ins. papers because our gov't "should" pay all, and I'm in an emergency situation.. heck ya, I'd expect to get the proper care needed, just like all Canadians. Just go right to the ER instead of waiting like we have do do in US lobbies where ins. checks need to be verified.

Supposedly Candian families "occasionally" have problems with family doctors, but that's not the case too often either. I am prolly like most and don't even care to make it to a family doctor, My "family doctor tells me I have asthma and prescribes me the same medication... every time.

My point of view is pretty simple - I DO NOT like government interference in my life.

And neither do I. Universal health care is one of those things that FDR would have considered as important as economics was during his time. I'm about as libertarian as they come, but I think universal health care should be given to those who have a record of working!! If you need to be taken to the ER, let's find the nearest surgeon (and they're all qualified, aren't they?), and then tear you up for the next day!!

 

[arceeguy]

......I'm about as libertarian as they come, but I think universal health care should be given to those who have a record of working!!.....

While were dreaming, I think that only those who pay income taxes (presumably "productive citizens") should be allowed to vote! I think politicians would be a lot different if this were the case. (as in not pandering to people by offering handouts - like "free" healthcare)

Talk to me about universal health care after social security is fixed. FWIW, I'm not counting on a penny from social security and have been putting away on my own, I suggest anyone reading this do the same. SS was never really meant to be a personal retirement account as much as a "safety net" for people.

 

[sparky]

While were dreaming, I think that only those who pay income taxes (presumably "productive citizens") should be allowed to vote! I think politicians would be a lot different if this were the case. (as in not pandering to people by offering handouts - like "free" healthcare)

Are paying taxes really the only way to be a "productive citizen", tho? What about students, all the way from HS to college graduates? Or volunteers that were previously very productive citizens. Or what about people who work seasonally? It could be a decent idea, but it's difficult to put a monetary value on who's productive.

Talk to me about universal health care after social security is fixed. FWIW, I'm not counting on a penny from social security and have been putting away on my own, I suggest anyone reading this do the same. SS was never really meant to be a personal retirement account as much as a "safety net" for people.

I completely agree that retirement should be taken into the hands of individuals. But health care is my issue that I have experienced on multiple occasions. My point is that those who are against the Canada system say, "You don't get a choice". Every single time I have or I've seen someone go to the hospital... they never got a choice with their surgeon/doctor. They got who was available and were happy, and for my experience, I got no surgeon at the largest hospital on the MS Gulf Coast. They charged my ins. company $2500 *just* for the ambulance ride. I wanted to just hop in the car with my mom, but no they insisted.

As for my mother who would have to pay $500/mo for health ins., she literally has months of sick days saved up that she's never going to use. Only time she ever had to go to the ER, she got her gall bladder removed, and it cost like $8000... saving more money than paying the gouging health ins. companies. The only time health ins. would benefit her is to get medication for asthma. The price of an inhaler used to be like $20, now they've got "special" ones that are EPA friendly and cost closer to $80. I think we're honestly about to start ordering our medication from Canada, and I'm not proud of it.

I'm not proud of lots of choices our country makes nowadays, tho... so the United States of Canada it is.

Seriously, how can you be for multiple insurance companies doing the same thing? Don't you feel like they're just using a checklist for a job description, that a gov't employee could follow as well?? I've never been able to hear one good benefit to having privatized insurance.

And when ins. companies run out of money because they were spending it on marketing or an overpaid CEO and other upper-management, why does the gov't get to hand them more money to bail them out?

The government should be the man in the middle, helping each of us... so long as we're being "productive".