Helmet Law fought- Salt Lake plus other info



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Steve

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#2
#2
Here in Texas you don't have to wear a helmet if you can prove you have health insurance. Sort of a weird law in my opinion. Seems strange you don't have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, but you do have to wear a seat belt in a car. By the way, I am alive today because I was wearing a helmet in '94. :wink:
 

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davidsis

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#3
#3
Helmet

Same thing in Daytona seat bealt law strongly enforced. No helmet on motorcycle no problem. Thats just so they can pull you over to check your car.
 

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gone_fishin

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#4
#4
i've found that, almost anywhere, if ya can produce a veteran's adminstration medical system card, they don't much care what you do or don't do, so long as you're otherwise being cool 8)

but, i own and use a DOT approved helmet, cuz i'm runnng low on functioning brain-cells, i gotta protect wut i have left :roll:
 

M

Mile High Chop-Ped

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#5
#5
I have a bunch of helmets. I wear them for everything when I am moving on wheels or snow and not inside a car. I have seen the results of not wearing a helmet from death to ending up wondering around drooling for the rest of your life. You can where one now by choice when you are out riding or in a split second you can end up wearing one around the house on doctors orders. To not wear a helmet can literally be a No Brain-er.
 

Tom

Tom

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#6
I couldn't agree more. I wear a helmet any time I ride no matter what. If I don't put one on, I feel naked.
 

J

jlebh1

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#7
same I cant even go on my bike without putting on a helmet espesially after I got hit by a stupid women (no offense) who didnt have her lights on
 

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ihatemybike

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Weren't laws supposed to protect me from others, not from myself? I see helmet and seatbelt usage as Darwinism in effect. Let the idiots die off, hopefully without reproducing first. Me, I proudly wear my seatbelt and my helmet.
 

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SimpleSimon

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It's about economics, really.

If requiring helmets reduces the number of fatalities by X, and the number of incapacitating brain injuries by X * N, the cost to society of the resultant drains on public resources in the forms of survivors benefits to your children, or disability benefits to you, or AFDC for your family is significantly lower. So, the question becomes - is societies interest in lowering the costs incurred by accidents sufficiently high to justify over riding your liberty interest in riding without a helmet.

Every analysis I've ever read says the savings are substantial; the legislatures and the courts have ruled that societies interest is of greater value than yours. In this case, I agree with them.
 

Mountainman

Mountainman

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still torn on this issue -- crashed back in 1988 -- no helmet -- a lot of damage to my head -- one **** of a thing to put the family and ourselfs through !!! Now in Calif we have no choice -- helmets must be worn -- do I agree with this -- not to sure -- I think that there should be a age limit where helmets must be worn -- anyone under 25 wear a helmet -- 25 and over not required but must have proof of personal insurance.. Happy Riding from - Mountainman
 

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SimpleSimon

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Quite frankly, I'd reverse that age-limiting scenario, should I be instituting limits. Younger people 1) heal more quickly, at lower cost; 2) recover from significant brain injury more completely and MUCH more quickly, at enormously lesser cost; 3) are much less likely to have multiple dependents who become a drain on the public purse if they are killed or incapacitated; and 4) even when not able to recover completely, are much more likely to push hard to re-establish themselves as independent and self-supporting.

Frankly, any person who rides without a helmet is demonstrating just one thing - a near total selfish disregard for reality in favor of a fleeting pleasure. An overgrown child, in other words.
 

Mountainman

Mountainman

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SimpleSimon said:
Quite frankly, I'd reverse that age-limiting scenario, should I be instituting limits. Younger people 1) heal more quickly, at lower cost; 2) recover from significant brain injury more completely and MUCH more quickly, at enormously lesser cost; 3) are much less likely to have multiple dependents who become a drain on the public purse if they are killed or incapacitated; and 4) even when not able to recover completely, are much more likely to push hard to re-establish themselves as independent and self-supporting.

Frankly, any person who rides without a helmet is demonstrating just one thing - a near total selfish disregard for reality in favor of a fleeting pleasure. An overgrown child, in other words.
Click to expand...
Interesting -- No law comes to mind -- that protects older ones more that younger ones... Agreed - best for all to wear a helmet - should it be enforced by the state or fed -- I believe in less goverment where ever possible.. Happy Riding from - Mountainman
 

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darwin

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#13
Weren't laws supposed to protect me from others, not from myself? I see helmet and seatbelt usage as Darwinism in effect. Let the idiots die off, hopefully without reproducing first. Me, I proudly wear my seatbelt and my helmet.
__________________
Aaron
Have bicycle, need motor...............EXCUSE ME! DARWINISM?
 

S

SimpleSimon

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darwin said:
Weren't laws supposed to protect me from others, not from myself? I see helmet and seatbelt usage as Darwinism in effect. Let the idiots die off, hopefully without reproducing first. Me, I proudly wear my seatbelt and my helmet.
__________________
Aaron
Have bicycle, need motor...............EXCUSE ME! DARWINISM?
Click to expand...
You misunderstand the rationale and intent of the law. Frankly, the law isn't about protecting anyone, as an individual. What it is about is protecting the aggregation of individuals collectively known as society from the unreasonable choices of individuals acting as individuals.

Riding without a helmet, motoring without a seat belt, are both good examples of such unreasonable individual choices. Society has a right, some might say a duty, to protect itself from those individual choices deemed unacceptable.
 

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SimpleSimon

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Mountainman said:
Interesting -- No law comes to mind -- that protects older ones more that younger ones... Agreed - best for all to wear a helmet - should it be enforced by the state or fed -- I believe in less goverment where ever possible.. Happy Riding from - Mountainman
Click to expand...
Want an example?

Take a look at the constitutional requirements for election to office.
 


arceeguy

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#17
While I am a helmet and seatbelt proponent, I do not believe laws like that should be enacted in the name of the "public good". For example, one can say that overweight people have far more impact on health insurance rates and public health costs than people who get injured as a direct result of not wearing a helmet or seatbelt. We know that obesity causes heart disease can contribute to diabetes and numerous other health problems, yet people are still free to eat whatever/whenever they want.

Think about this:

Someday, some government official is going to decide that strapping an engine on a pedal bicycle and driving it on public streets is dangerous, and that town, county or state will ban motorized bicycles to protect anyone that has the fool idea of mounting an internal combustion engine on a bicycle. These types of laws are the ones that are more likely to be adopted, and not laws defining a motorized bike as free from licensing, registration and insurance requirements. (not regulating something is just unthinkable!)

Some folks squeal like a stuck pig about the CIA terrorist surveillance program which has provisions for emergency warrantless wiretaps, yet applaud seat belt laws, helmet laws, trans fat bans, etc. Which policy is likely to affect you? I know that I've gotten a couple of seat belt tickets when I forgot to belt-in, nevermind that I willingly buckle-up 99% of the time. (Those intimidating "CLICK IT OR TICKET" campaigns are soooo friendly to the public and just scream "we want to keep you safe".... uh huh....) Ever taste trans fat free KFC? It is not the same stuff it used to be IMO. Point is that if you let the government control more and more, it will only be a matter of time before they come after something YOU love. Everyone in the motored biking community should remember that the future of motored biking is in the hands of the people that create these laws and legislation. You know, the ones who outlaw bird baths because mosquitoes can breed in the water. I guess we should go around and drain all the ponds, lakes and use a portable shop vac to dry out any puddles..........
 

loquin

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What about my rights as a citizen to NOT want society to HAVE to pay the huge medical costs associated with keeping severely brain-injured individuals alive? There are a plethora of laws designed to protect the citizens of this country which state that emergency rooms HAVE to treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. I don't have an issue with those laws. I DO have an issue with the hospitals being forced by those same laws, to take heroic measures to try to save the lives of those who were idiots BEFORE they slammed their head against the pavement without a helmet.

There's always a balancing act between the rights of society as a whole, and the rights of individuals. This one is really a no-brainer though. Individuals should NOT be allowed to jack up taxes for everyone else by refusing to take a simple precaution.
 

arceeguy

arceeguy

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loquin said:
What about my rights as a citizen to NOT want society to HAVE to pay the huge medical costs associated with keeping severely brain-injured individuals alive? There are a plethora of laws designed to protect the citizens of this country which state that emergency rooms HAVE to treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay. I don't have an issue with those laws. I DO have an issue with the hospitals being forced by those same laws, to take heroic measures to try to save the lives of those who were idiots BEFORE they slammed their head against the pavement without a helmet.

There's always a balancing act between the rights of society as a whole, and the rights of individuals. This one is really a no-brainer though. Individuals should NOT be allowed to jack up taxes for everyone else by refusing to take a simple precaution.
Click to expand...
There are many things I think are more important than denying medical treatment for someone who made a choice not to wear a helmet. I don't like my tax dollars being spent on treating illegal immigrants in our hospitals either. I don't like my tax dollars going to feed, cloth and educate the children of illegals. I don't like paying the highest property taxes in the nation to fund a mediocre (at best) public education system even if I choose send my kid to a private school. As mentioned before, the medical treatment of obese people most likely poses far more of a burden to insurance companies and publicly funded health care. Maybe there should be a law that makes it illegal to be fat, this would save taxpayers huge amounts of money. And it is easier than a helmet law, because you don't have to do anything to control your weight - literally, you just stop eating as much. Nothing to put on your head, nothing to buckle up!

Seriously though, even though it seems like we are miles apart, I think our opinions may be closer than it seems. I don't have any problems with hospitals sending bills to the uninsured patient or their family if they must treat them by law. You can't run around with a cell phone, cable TV, playstation video game, high speed internet, and a new car payment and tell me that you can't afford health insurance. There are many people that aren't insured because they choose to have all of the above (and more) instead of a basic plan to cover catastrophic events. If everyone bought insurance, the cost would plummet. Some states don't allow insurance companies to deny coverage to people who want to buy insurance AFTER they find out that they have a medical condition. This means that they are immediately a huge financial loss for the company as they are forced to pay out claims immediately. These costs are just passed on to other policy holders. Wouldn't it be nice for me to drive my car uninsured until I got in an accident, then apply for a policy? On top of that, many people think that routine visits and every single prescription (from allergy medicine to viagra) should be covered by insurance. Where did we get this notion from? Does my car insurance cover tune ups and oil changes? Are we expecting too much? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...........

rant over - now back to our regularly scheduled program! :)

Oh - make sure you wear a helmet!!!!
 

J

JemmaUK

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#20
#20
Im gonna put something in here...

We all ride varying machines that run from 20mph to almost 60mph

we all say it wont happen to me... when it does the only thing we are likely to be saying is a variation on a theme of dribble.. thats if you're still alive.

Yes, I know that helmets are uncool/hot/sweaty/ruin your well coiffered locks et al ad nauseum.

But I already have one funeral to go to in the near future, in that case for someone I deeply love and will miss terribly. I dont want to hear of another or a horrific injury - there are a lot of people I consider friends here - and I never use that term lightly...

Wear a helmet, do it for me, do it for your wife, partner, daughter, son whoever, but please do it...

Or I will have to come to your town and make puppy dog eyes at you until you surrender to my amazing cuteness... and do as your are told...

failing that a hammer can be obtained :lol:

I have, thank the stars, never seen a motorbike accident that the person concerned hasnt walked away from. But I also agree that shoving laws in peoples faces isnt the right way in this sort of situation.

But if there is one person in your life who you love and loves you then for their sake get hold of a decent kitemarked or D.O.T certified helmet and wear it. Bones can be mended - but so far as I know neither Duane nor Dennis do a line in replacement MB'er brains...

Ride safe..

Jemma xx
 


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