Project: OVERKILL

[appye]

So It Is Caused By Differences In The Links Themselves Or More From Side To Side Movement Caused By Vibration? Anyway, The Wa Wa I Get Is Only Audible And I Don't Feel Any Wagging. I Hope That When I Move The Gear Further To The Right And Further Out Of Alignment This Weekend It Doesn't Make It More Pronounced! How Quickly Are You Able To Get Your Engine To Start When It Is Cold? I Gotta Say, I Don't Much Like That Weird Little Spring Loaded Pull Start.

 

[DetonatorTuning]

i push the primer, shut the choke, pull twice, open choke, pull twice and that's usually all it takes.

short energetic tugs, the spring will do the work for you if you let it.

the wawawa is mostly the chain moving from side to side. if you have the sprockets out of line the chain will cross the teeth at a slight angle, wearing the side plates and pins allowing even more side travel and wawawa/ wagging.

it may be a compromise you need to live with or de-bug.

steve

 

[appye]

One Primer Push? I Couldn't Start It Last Night When Showing My Brother My New Hog. I Think I Flooded It Though.

 

[DetonatorTuning]

appye,

you OK buddie ?

 

[appye]

Okay, I have been riding this thing for a few days now and overall it has been going nicely. There is a little learning curve involved in starting this engine cold! For the uninformed, it is easy to flood it. Now, I pretty much close the choke, prime once and pull 2-3 times until I get a quick vroom, then open the choke and pull the cord one more time with the throttle pulled a little bit. burble burble burble ...

5-7Heaven, I think I will go to go back to the threaded rods, I have not been able to play around with chain alignment like I was able to before. I will however be going your route and cutting a couple of grade8 bolts off at the head if I can instead of using the rods from Home Depot, unless I find out that they are already grade8. Is there a grade 10 or a grade 1,000,000? Or is it stronger the lower the grade? If so is there a grade -1,000,000? I want to make sure those rods stay nice and straight.

So if I align the two gears perfectly, this should cut down on my wawawah? Currently, it is aligned right between the two gears, and I was figuring i would have to move it even further over so it aligned perfectly with the 12 tooth to avoid a problem where it kept wanting to engage the bigger gear... But if this increases the wawah using the 16 tooth, I don't want to do that. I have decided that the noise is irritating and it does cause a slight jerkiness that makes it not feel so smooth.

This brings me to the two speed issue. I have yet to try any mountain riding so I don't know how the 16 tooth will handle it, but compared to my old engine, this thing has a set of forged titanium balls that propel me right up the same hill at 35mph from a dead stop with zero pedaling where the old engine would be lucky to reach 16mph with me pedaling my *** off! So it looks like I may have to look into a tradeoff between wawah and fully realizing my two-speed dream.

Kerf, how do you handle this? Do you just live with a little wawawah or did you figure something out? Also, when I have the 12 tooth engaged, it does some weird thing where I think it catches on the 16 tooth gear and then drops off again. Not sure if this what is happening, but I can see (from my shadow on the ground actually) that the tensioner moves back and forth quite a bit when the thing starts jerking violently at about 12mph or so. This is what gave me the idea to align perfectly with the 12 tooth, but if that is going to generate even more wawawah I am not sure if I want that.

 

[kerf]

Play around with your spring tension on the idler, mine is kind of stiff. Also make sure the sprockets are parallel (gear box not canted) and there is no lateral play in the idler. I am using 410H chain with NO master links. The "wawawah" is a problem I had before doing the two speed change. With the original 14 tooth & #41 chain, the biked bucked like crazy at speed. Changing the freewheel with #41 helped but going to the 3/32" freewheel and 410H chain pretty much eliminated the issue. If there is any left, I guess I just ignore it.

The pulling power of the 460 doesn't kick in until you're over 7k. I can hit a hill at 25 and bog at the top or hit it at 30 and be going 35 at the top.

 

[appye]

I am not sure how I can measure precisely how canted the gearbox would be... I do know that the flat rods that I used for mounting the gearbox are measured with the holes exactly the same distance apart on both sides and it is bolted to the axle, so I would think there is no canting ...

I am also using a 410H but I do have a master link in there. How would this cause wawawah though? I made sure there was plenty of clearance around the chain so there would be no chance of the master link clipping something and getting knocked loose. Did removing your master link actually help with the effect?

I am using 1/8" for all three gears. Are you using 3/32 for all three or just for the two drive gears? Do you think it might help with my problem? The reason I am hesitant is that I don't know if going with narrower sprockets would cause more horizontal movement or slop and if that is the cause of the effect. As it is now, it is mostly just audible, even at speed, but when I get over 40mph I do feel a slight bucking sensation.

Also, I have the tension on the chain pretty tight. How do I go about figuring out what "proper" tension is?

Forgot to mention before, but I am not getting anywhere near the fabled 150mpg that others here are claiming. This is only the first tank, and I have ridden it at 40+ for quite a bit (hard to resist) but I wasn't expecting it to be this bad. I have almost gone through 2 gallons and I am only at maybe 110 miles. I hope I have enough to make it home because I don't have any 2-stroke oil with me... I have both screws turned at 1 1/4... This brings me to my next question. How do I know which screw to adjust? I was thinking to leave the low circuit just as is and only play with the high screw based on how my plug looks, but I wanted to run that by you guys first.

 

[kerf]

I'm using 3/32" sprockets. Getting rid of the master link can't hurt. I've heard the "sound" on some motorcycles, may have to live with some of it.

Check the air cleaner, they can get oil soaked. Looks clean, won't flow air.

 

[DetonatorTuning]

appye,

what kind and what oil ratio are you using ?

IMHO you would be better served to adjust the front "L" screw to about 1-1/8 turn out, this will help with starting and idle stability.

also turn the back "H" screw out to 1-1/2. since you are using the Xcan the engine is expelling a good portion of the intake charge ,esp. at upper rpms ,and believe me you don't want to risk a high rpm lean out.

if you are pushing 40+mph thru the Staton with a fairly tight engine you are likely not getting more than 60mpg. again IMHO, the drive resistance goes up exponentialy just like wind resistance and drag.

it is very labor intensive and frustrating to build and tune to the slightest possible margine of compromise, and the real truth is you can't have it all, or both ways at once.

your final criterion was durability via massive overkill ,so................... slow down and start acting like you intend to be at this for awhile.

i was doing 40mls at a cruise of 35-40mph with the GEBE and 14T on a quart of fuel and getting 1000mls (one month) out of the belts with great care. just as an example of the other side of the coin.

i'd thought we lost ya, glad to see you're still at it.

steve

 

[appye]

No, just haven't been perusing the forums for a couple weeks. Didn't you say you were getting 150mpg with your staton kit using 16tooth?

I really am trying to keep it under 40, but on some streets the cars are going faster, and I don't feel very safe unless I keep up. People like to pass you up on the same lane if you stay too far to the right and it kinda sucks to hog the lane in a 40mph zone while I am only doing 35 and they are doing 45... I will turn the screws like you say and see how it all works out. I am almost through the first tank of fuel (2 gals) with some generic brand oil that I ran at 25:1 ... I am debating if I should go with the amsoil sabre now or if I should go another tank with the 25:1. I would think the engine is pretty nicely broken in. I did probably ten or so short bursts before taking it to work, which is about a 45 minute trip stop and go. The stop and go is a big factor in the mileage I would think. Once I get a muffler going and my drive kit concealed I will probably hit the bike trail on which should cut down on that sigificantly.