Super wide range torque pipe from Jaguar is a technological breakthrough

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by lazylightning@mail.r, Oct 6, 2013.

  1. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    If you are interested in performance mods for this engine, then this is the way to go. The only thing is that you will have to take a little time to make it yourself.
    The bike gets on the pipe at low rpm's, less than 2000 rpm's and in 3 seconds its at top speed with a stock rear sprocket. It's truly amazing. The only thing is that it's not for everyone. Definitely not for inexperienced bicyclists!
    The sound! A low rpm supercharge sound is much more classy and inspiring than the high rpm wailing of any bike. It's at low rpm's, you hit the gas, and it begins to roar a low deep dragon song. I run my pipe with no muffler and just the straight stinger tube. It's got a metallic giant bumble bee sound that's low down and boogie and draws respect, instead of a high pitch high rpm scream that usually draws only ire and disgust from people around you. My bike sounds more like a Harley than a scream machine.
    A high rpm engine will be powerful only at high rpm's. The high rpm's will kill it fast, espeially if it's one of these Chinese engines.
    As for any two stroke engine that you want to port for low rpm power with a lower rpm range, up to about 8000rpm's, this pipe will do wonders. Any low rpm two stroke scooter or motorcycle will become majorly powerful and will have an incredible low canon thunder sound.
    I had already ported the cylinder and deepned and widened and correcterd the transfers. I had already added a new Dellorto 16mm carburator and a Jaguar CDI. I was already feeling more power than when the engine came out of the box. But when I put that torque pipe on, it just blew my world away! It became 2 - 3 times more powerful! The bike got a soul and I was no longer striving to drive at full speed all the time. I became happy to be at a lower to mid speed where I could constantly give it gas and hear that orgasmic thunder and feel the powerful acceleration that is just mind blowing for a bicycle. I blow motorcylces and cars away at certain speed ranges. I can use a 35 tooth rear sprocket and cruise at high speeds, a Gran Prix racer. I've got my stock 44 toother on now and I go to top speed immediately! I'm going to keep it on for winter sports, when I get my spiked tires on!
    Sometimes the answer to all your problems is just before your eyes. If you love to cruise or ripit, then you will become a different person after doing it with this pipe! You'll probably have to tighten up the clutch mechanism a bit though, so it can hold all that power!
    If for whatever reason you don't even want to try, well that's okay with me. I've got the desire to covet this as a secret weapon. I highly doubt that most of the guys should even have a racing motorcyle for a bicycle.
    Just don't forget to get rid of those cantilever brakes and get some disc brakes! ;-)
    elgallo and sublunacy like this.

  2. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    Torque Pipe Magic

    Well, if I were selling the torque pipe then people would think that was a paid testimony. It's not. The pipe is that good.
    To all distributors of motorized bicycle parts I have only one word for you all: FOOLS!
    Once you start making and selling this pipe the demand will be enormous! Meanwhile you sell those **** pocketbike pipes that only cater to high RPM power and are way way too loud (even with a silencer). Every pocketbike pipe sale undercuts the whole motorized bike movement due to their loud noise.
    After weeks of mental work I found the answer but no distributor is making use of it.

    LL, you're the man. Kudos to you for making your bike magic!
  3. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    Hi Jaguar!

    Thanks again for the help with the pipe! It's amazing. The guys at our garage were all skeptics, but after actually seeing and trying it, they said it was really surprising that it works in such a wide range. These guys had lost respect for the Chinese engines and had gone over to electric long before I showed up, but this had actually impressed them. Anyway they liked how I work too and now I'm in the custom shop helping make bikes and all kinds of stuff as a job. We'll have to give it a try on some of those bigger two stroke street retro bikes they got sitting there.
    As far as the loud goes, I know I'm on a thin line by running the bike with no muffler at all. But like I said, when the rpm's are low, the sound is not quite so caustic and when they see it's a bicycle, they all want one. Every single man over 40 and up to 90 years old in the USSR had one of these things in their childhood - though I doubt they had a good torque pipe!))) It was one of the things that everybody could afford and was always available. Besides, loud is good on Russian roads. Loud pipes save lives! It is extremely dangerous to drive in Russia, lot's of friggin stupid fools and road rage. Now that I'm running loud, I'll never go back. The drivers notice me and most of them let me through out of courtesy, or curiousity. When I do go off road, on sidewalks and through parks though, I do turn off the engine and use my pedals if I see any baby carriages, people with dogs and elderly. People notice that I cut the engine out of consideration and it makes them glad =-)
  4. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    Here you Go!

    SDC16648.jpg SDC16647.jpg SDC16641.jpg SDC16638.jpg SDC16629.jpg SDC16626.jpg SDC16628.jpg done.jpg SDC16987.jpg SDC17282.jpg
    Here you go! I used the program cone layout and printed the forms on paper and then glued them to ceral box carton. Then I layed them on some metal and scratched the line. I ended up with about .5 to 1 mm extra along the edges and when I had the peices bent to shape, I could use the calipers on each end to measure the diameter of the perfectly round opening. Also I measure the length using calipers. There was a large cutting disc at work that I could get inside the lengthwise cut and take metal off easily, but slowly and carefully.Otherwise a handgrinder in a vise or just a plain old file would work. When everything was perfect in size, I just use wire and other junk to compress the cone or cylinder into the perfect position for welding it. Not so hard at all really. Just don't get in a hurry. I used my spare time at work for bending and welding. Took a couple of weeks. The header was a real challenge. I used this piece of 28 mm steel tube that has a 25 mm inner diameter. I had to cut it into 6 pieces and grind the edge to sharper angles because nobody could bend it like I needed it. The connecting ends were made on a lathe at work.
  5. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    In this video the clutch has not been tightened up yet and I can't give it too much gas at once or it just slips. Also the rear sprocket is 35 teeth, so it's for cruising at higher speeds instead of taking off from lower speeds.

    You can hear it better in this video, I was running it with no stinger tube when I first got the pipe on. But again, the clutch is not holding the new power and I can't give it full throttle at once or it just slips, so I give it gradually. Later I got my clutch tightened up and it holds, but I havent made any more videos yet.

    I'm running it with the stock sprocket now and it takes of real fast, but the top speed is miserable. I'm going to keep it on for the winter though. I've got spiked tires.
  6. bahramu

    bahramu Member

    I'd like to see another video of you going from 0 to topspeed now that your clutch is adjusted and you have the 44 tooth sprocket
  7. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    sublunacy, lazylightning is the one who shared the woosh silencer design with me.
    his friend invented it.
  8. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    I will gladly take credit for my inventions but not for someone elses.
    My design of silencer is pretty good though.
    LL is right though about the noise level being just right from a "belly stinger" if you want to be noticed without getting people mad at you
  9. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    It's an all around nice pipe. When I get to full speed with the 35 tooth sprocket I really don't want to go much faster. The roads are bad, it is a bicycle after all =-)
    There's nothing wrong with a loud pipe in Russia, no laws about loud mufflers, almost all bikes are muffler-less. It really does help get drivers attention. If they don't notice you, then things get really nasty after a close call or accident - road rage, shoot outs and the whole nine. It's Russia after all and the drunk drivers need to hear you coming loud and clear.
    If I'm scooting the sidewalks or in parks, I turn off the engine and use the pedals when approaching people with strollers, elderly, people with dogs or people from behind. Going slow and all. I do alot of grass on mediums, beyond shoulders and between trees and stuff to go around gridlock trtaffic jams. There was only 7 million people in Moscow 20 years ago, now there is 50 milion.
    The Woosh silencer that Jaguar made is similar to the one that my proffesor friend invented but quite different. I made a super one and the pulsation is almost cgone coming out of the muffler, but the engine block-cylinder itself is still quite lound at high rpm.
  10. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    View attachment 50461 y_f0cd3408.jpg y_b3bcdce4 (1).jpg
    I was going through a clutch pushrod every week from my overtightened clutch. Cables were breaking fast and I finally lossened the clutch back up. So now it's slipping again. I will try to be more careful and adjust it back now very slowly, a quarter turn at a time. It's very difficult to take it all apart to access the little hole for adjusting the clutch though. It would be great if someone would make an after market system to allow the cable to connect to that stock support-hole cover, and then disconnect without having to remove the frayed cable and the have to try to thread it back through each time.
    Soon it will be snow and ice season in Russia, and I am plannig to have some fun ;-)
  11. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    No oil and grease on my pads at all. It's just a matter of how they tightened the mechanism at the factory when they put it together. Even when my pads were clean and de-glazed, it would never hold the new power. After I tightened it up, then it didnt slip at all anymore and it handled the gnarly way out power going through the clutch system. Absolutely no slipping while taking off like a rocket or going up very very steep hills. Even with totally glazed pads it holds fine. That's the difference a tightened mechanism makes. So I don't really understand what glazed means anymore, it doesn't make a difference I think. I have no oil and grease in the pads compartment. There is barely any grease residue in those gear teeth. It's all clean in there.
    So now I have to painstakingly take it apart to tighten it ever so slightly back up a tiny bit at a time. We are still looking at using a tiny old hydraulic disc brake caliper cylinder and piston and tig welding it into a clutch cover and using some cobalt nickel steel parts that are heat treated and quenched/tempered. Well if it doesn't hold well enough and the parts start wearing out fast again. Then I'll have to invent some things.
  12. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    The clutch on all these Chinese engines are the same. Just the degree of adjustment may vary when they come from the factory. The fact that Arrow's bikes engines and that Jaguar's bikes engines can handle the power without slipping and are not overtightened is evidence to prove that the clutches on these engines can be properly adjusted so as to hold the power without slipping, yet be not so tight so as to have the parts wear out every few days of riding. I hope to get mine properly adjusted soon.
  13. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    the best russian videos ive seen... guy on scooter at lights. falling asleep. guy in car behind him honks. honks again. guy on scooter wakes up. stands up, gets AXE off scooter and approaches car that is very quickly reversing and finding an alternate route :jester:

    and the horse crossing on a zebra pedestrian crossing. looks like its in suburbia. just a horse, going for a walk. so funny.

    the others...just scary :) ice, vodka and 10tonne trucks. nasty.

    dos vidanya :)

    the clutch on a HT is probably the best bit of design on them.

    if they slip, i remove half the friction pads. double the pressure on each pad. just like grinding. you need a lot of pressure to get lots of "teeth" to penetrate. reduce the number of teeth (coarser grit) and the presure required to "bite" is reduced.

    otherwise you tend to slip, glaze, and once things have glazed/polished, they get super slippery...

    the sandpaper on the plates does work.

    so does drilling 5mm holes all over.

    this has nothing to do with exhaust pipes, does it? :jester:
    sublunacy likes this.
  14. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    Exhaust pipes? Sure it does if it's a super expansion chamber makes the bike rip balls! ;-) The thing went nuts when I put the pipe on and it gives a boost right away. Now the weather has been cooler and there's a high pressure system. All that oxygen has it running like a bat out of hell. I can't wait till it's real cold, even my stock engine had noticeably more power then. So that's why the clutch would nt hold. Before I put the super pipe on, it would hold usually but then from time to time the clutch would slip. To remedy the problem I would use fine grit paper on the pads, but not on the metal!!! I would use a very wide angle and dull center punch to open those divets in the disc back up. I would then losen the clutch arm but tighten the daisy nut up. That would make it possible to tighten the clutch properly over time. This was all good when the motor was stock and without having a full range expansion pipe. Something the two stroke world still is unaware of. Jaguar's pipe is really such a break through. It's just that now so many people are going over to four stroke and all, otherwise it would have probably been discovered by some big producers all ready and he would have a big deal with them Now back to the clutch, that can no longer hold the new wanton rip roaring power. Well, I found out that there is the little hole in the case under the clutch cable support that unscrews from the case. You stick the small screw driver in or allen wrench at an angle towards the pads direction and hook a slot and then push the bike backwards with clutch engaged so that the small sprocket turns a bit. Not too much, start with half a turn. Then add another half if it's not enough. It is neccesary to do this if you make your engine more powerful. I got mine adjusted to perfect now. Almost never slips and the clutch system is alive and well now. But now that I got it tightened just right, then glazed pads don't matter anymore. It holds anyway. You can even let the clutch out slowly while gassing it alot if you are going really slow, as if it were a real motor bike clutch. Glazed? Who cares, it holds anything now.

    Yeah, they film some pretty wild stuff over here)))
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  15. max350

    max350 Member

  16. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

  17. max350

    max350 Member

    Crankshaft, I have not had to do anything about it, was very good "balance" very little vibration. All bearings are replaced with SKF needle roller bearing is exchanged for engine spins about 9.5 k But still can not see what would be so "technological breakthrough" with that pipe? Currently I use the 35 teeth on the rear sprocket

  18. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    Interesting videos you linked. The first one shows it going not at 9500 rpm's. Mine goes up to top speed alot faster and I have the 35 toother on in my videos too. Mine is on the pipe the entire time at speeds of over 5 mph - like it's supercharged from start. Fast acceleration from the low speed range. I don't think I get more than 7500 rpm's at max though. I wonder how you do. The second video of your's shows a different kind of head on it. Now that's an important solution because poor head design and detonation caused by it rob alot of power. Is that a stock carb I see? You should probably get that Jaguar ignition kit and even change the lower end conrod needle bearings too. I know, it's a pain in the arse to get it unpressed, repressed and then realigned properly.
  19. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    I'm not aware that Jaguar called himself an inventor. This is something that has not been made or used before though as I am aware of. It amazes me and impresses every motorhead I've shown it to. The power range is huge. And if you have any kind of gearing, it's much better than noisy high rpm's that kill a motor fast. After all, we are going to have to have some kind of moto gear-hub or other gearing to drive these satisfactorily. I highly doubt that more than 9000 rpm's can be gotten out of these engines. And if it is, then the low range power will suck. You have to choose something.
  20. lazylightning@mail.r

    lazylightning@mail.r Active Member

    I would like to add, that it is possible to go up to 9000 rpm's with these pipes. I just have the stinger with a narrow diameter now that limits rpm's to about 7500. I ran it without any stinger at all and the low and middle range was great too. I could just use a 16 mm diameter stinger instead of the 10 mm stinger I'm using. I won't lose signifigant low end and it will not be limited to lower rpm's. I think it's my crankshaft that's limiting rpm's now. Maybe I will need to bore out the carb, but then I could lose low end.