Scratch build bike. Ideas?

Discussion in 'Photos & Bicycle Builds' started by TobiasKilroy, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    OK yes, I'm a madman. And yes often my dreams are bigger than my wallet. So I have for your perusal the parts list for my version of the ultimate motored bike.

    [ ] Worksman Cruiser $440
    http://www.worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/classic-cruiser-test.html
    [ ] Electric hub kit $209
    http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=191395458195&alt=web
    [ ] 2 Battery pack. 12v 10ah ea. 4×26.25
    http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=141109200164&alt=
    [ ] Running Total $754
    [ ] TruVativ American-to-Euro Conversion kit $24.95
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/opc.html
    [ ] Bottom Bracket Cartridge 153 mm $17.95
    http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalo...ucts_id=107&osCsid=sbut6bob0t2g3kjgb0scteqai5
    [ ] 48cc 4 Stroke Motorized Bike Kit $268
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009CSUI3U/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_KR1OvbR9MCH1F
    [ ] Running total. $1064.94
    [ ] Kickstand - Rear Mount Adjustable $14.95
    http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalo...ducts_id=75&osCsid=sbut6bob0t2g3kjgb0scteqai5
    [ ] Mirror $13.95
    http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalo...ucts_id=182&osCsid=sbut6bob0t2g3kjgb0scteqai5
    [ ] Running Total $1093.84


    OK so take some time to look that over. I need feedback on feasibility, reliablity, and missing parts. I might need to change the drive ratios of the gas kit but a top speed of 30 is all I want/need.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015

  2. bikejock

    bikejock Member

    Motorized bike hybrids have been done before. I recently found out about this awesome WW2 themed army bike hybrid made by a guy on YouTube. Here's what it looks like

    hybrid bike.jpg

    As I stated above it's not mine but boy do I wish. It should give you an idea for an awesome hybrid. Defiantly looks better than a Prius imo. The frame I believe it uses is a Phantombikes ghost in olive drab color but everything else is custom. Hope it works out for you. Wold love to see how it looks when your done, good luck.

    I don't know much about hybridization of motorized bikes as far as parts as I only have experience with gas only motorized bikes.

    Also should mention BicycleEngines.com sells 4G kits for $300 plus $22 S&H. It came within 5 days intact and on time I bought my 4G from them and I can vouch for them. They even sell all the replacement parts for the engine and kit unlike amazon. Amazon is selling knockoffs of 4G kits and wouldn't trust them. The 4G is usually better than the under $300 4 stroke kits.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  3. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    My current build is an HS 4-stroke "knockoff" kit I bought from bike berry.
    I've got several hundred miles under my belt so far and the only components that I haven't had even the slightest issue with has been the motor.
    You keep it full of oil and feed it the low octane gas it wants and it will run forever.



    OK sorry for popping off. I just get territorial about things I've spent money on.


    That is a very cool hybrid you found. Have you got a pic of the other side? I didn't expect to be able to put the drive sprocket on an electric hub.

    I still want mine all wheel drive. I weigh 380, I don't need more pounds on the rear wheel.
     
  4. bikejock

    bikejock Member

    No prob I hear ya. Personally I usually avoid knockoffs and try for the good stuff or best I can get with my budget. Here's a link to the full video;
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  5. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    Knock off is all I can afford.

    Cool bike, boring vid.
     
  6. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    still not what i was hoping for...


    when is someone (other than me...) going to get

    a stinking big brushless motor

    a 3 phase rectifier bridge

    a lil 35 or summink...

    and a hub motor?

    yes, the electronics can be a bit daunting...oh dear... PWM speed controls and stuff...

    easier than chains and stuff...

    while the tandem setup seems a bit silly at first, the idea grows...electric for pedestrian activities, gas for highway...


    no! i wanna see the engine use as a generator, and only a generator!
     
  7. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    @HeadSmess mechanisms and machinery are always easier than electronics when it comes to comprehension and planning.

    And what with the plethora of complete hug motor kits available there is no need to worry about the electronics.

    I will not be using the motor as a generator. Nor will I relegate either drive system to a single use. My plan is to utilize both simultaneously. Thus allowing for faster starts and better climbing of overpasses. The second reason for the gas not being generator only is I want the theoretically limitless range that a 4-stroke motor provides.

    It is my dream to ride my bike from Sacramento to my hometown of Willows. Aka my first true century for you cycle nuts.
     
  8. KCvale

    KCvale Motorized Bicycle Vendor

    Where to start...

    Well, you can't fit a 4-stroke in that Workman frame without cutting that middle bar out so a bad bike choice.

    Your engine kit choice looks to be a kitty litter box or turtle enclosure with no specs.
    In short not an HS 142F-1G 49cc 4-stroke or a real 4/10G transfer case.

    That front 1KW hub motor seems OK but it weighs 24# and total bike/rider combination it will take is 330#.
    It short, the axle won't even take you just standing on it.

    Your 4 12V LA battery choice will be huge and weigh another 24# and only put out 480W, that may not even be enough to make it work and if it did it wouldn't last long.

    Lastly, on a bicycle a small light electric front hub system is dandy on a 2-stroke to help you bump start the gas engine pretty useless after that and down right silly on a 4-stroke.

    Besides, your dreams of having 2 wheel drive from 2 different systems with 2 different throttles would be an absolute nightmare to try to control in real life traffic conditions.

    So to answer your 'Am I Crazy' question...
    Bat Poop Crazy for anyone let alone a 350# guy with those part selections in my opinion.

    You have $1K+ budget, there are ways to make you something reliable and easy to maintain that will take you up hills and do 30mph, your choices just aren't it ;-}
     
  9. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    1. Are you sure about your claim about the worksman? Cuz I've specifically checked frame dimensions with them.

    2. That motor kit is exactly what I'm using on my current bike and I like it greatly.

    3. Nobody makes bicycle equipment with my weight under the rated capacity. I've checked. I do know that rated capacities are generally a minimum of 75-80% of the failure load.

    4. It's 8 batteries. 20ah at 48v. If I could afford LIon I would. And the kit's battery charger is for lead acid only.

    5. I never said it would be easy to drive, that's part of the fun. Besides I onlybrin at two speeds. Idle and flat out.

    6. I don't have a $1k budget, I have a build as you go budget. I can't even afford the worksman yet.

    7. You state there exist better options but provide no examples. I would very much like to examine them and increase my store of knowledge.
     
  10. KCvale

    KCvale Motorized Bicycle Vendor

    I just can't see a 4-stroke fitting in this this, and I build a lot of 4-strokes.

    [​IMG]

    The HS engine is excellent, it's the 5G dual chain transfer case that's junk.
    The simple fact is chains wear and get loose, and there is no way to tighten them.

    Check out the $300 4G http://bicycle-engines.com they advertise here and a fine kit that comes with wide cranks, but you will need the BB conversion cups.

    Not with just 2 wheels.
    I like the 29" Micargi Fatal Love for large people.
    All steel, rated at 300#, and a breeze to fit a 4-stroke in.

    fatal4SddFrontRight.jpg

    You might want to consider a trailer to carry that 21"x6"x4.5" 50# lead block.

    Not uncommon.
    When you only have a small amounts every week to put to a build, you just save longer to get the good stuff.

    You asked for input, my opinion is this as silly as it gets given all the factors.
     
  11. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    1. There is 16in from the center of the bottom bracket to the center of the bottom top tube of n the Worksman. A squeeze? Yes, but it will just fit.

    2. There is no way to tighten a belt either. They don't last as long. Can't transmit the same amount of Torque. And are far more expensive to replace.

    3. If you will recall I weigh a petite 380# naked. I'm still too heavy for your 29er.

    Don't get me wrong I love 29ers.

    4. Agreed, batteries on the whole are rather impractical.

    6. This is my only means of transportation. Emphasis on Only. My current one is only going to last so long. I have to have my new one started when it does or I'm on foot.

    Unfortunately for me, silly appeals to me.
     
  12. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    from the sounds of it, so do twinkies and hunks of fried chicken :rofl:
     
  13. KCvale

    KCvale Motorized Bicycle Vendor

    Best of luck with your build.

    Wow, 0-4 correct on that.
    Enjoy your chain drive ;-}
     
  14. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    OK. Would you provide the technical specifications to support your claim?
     
  15. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    go check out the posters other threads, his builds, consider the fact he runs a business building these, and unlike a lot of the warriors advertising on craigslist and so forth, doesnt spew out rubbish... just seems to offer sound advice. possibly takes pride in his work. iunno.

    of course, i could be in his pay, despite the fact im in a different country all together and have never even spoken to the man...

    why did most modern cars go to using flat toothed timing belts rather than the duplex, even triplex chains that were once used? what about all those other silly chains, like the morse silent, or inverted tooth, etc?

    all becoming obsolete, due to the fact that a belt requires no lubrication, is relatively silent, is relatively maintenance free, the ONLY disadvantage to a chain is that...they usually have to be installed in one piece, ie, no joiners making for awkward designs (look at a buell or any other belt drive bike...) and they are marginally less efficient than a plain chain being run in an enclosed oil bath... were talking 97% or so as compared to up to 99% with a good chain.

    they dont get grit in them, only v belts squeak when worn out, they dont spray black grease and oil over everything...


    its really easy to mount a flat idler wheel on the back of a belt...its really tricky setting up one for a chain... they actually have to line up :(


    i hate HD but i have to wonder why the bike with one of the largest engines commercially available, and possibly the most TORQUEY motorcycle engines available, often run belts rather than chains...

    one thing ive noticed with chains versus belts...chains dont "stretch" evenly. why is it, every manual for tensioning chains tells you to adust the chain in its tightest position? because they have loose spots, tight spots, and all that does is make your bike rock and roll and surge every time the chain does one revolution... of course, it really is only noticeable on a motorbike at about 60mph or so... but you can hear it! cachunka cachunka...

    noise is simply WASTED POWER. as is heat.

    no need to start quoting engineering manuals or uni research papers into the subjects.

    every thing he said is correct. dealing with two throttle systems, plus brakes, plus paying attention.

    the weights. batteries, yourself, the bike...

    actually, no. i have a bucket with five HS engines, all %^^@ in one way or another... so they arent that great at all :(

    saving up and doing it properly rather than do it half heartedly, waste your time, money, and forever be cussing.


    start jogging. might reduce the weight loading a bit by the time the bikes ready.
     
  16. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    Fine. You win.

    I will delete my account and leave you all alone.
     
  17. troyg

    troyg Member

    No need to boogie off, KC has been through it, so his advise is a great starting point, "shoulders of giants" and all, also he posted a link to his measure converter, I almost feel I should pay him for how much I've used it.If you really are 380, there are special bike SUN makes for cargo and overweight people, but I think even those only are rated to 300.Weight doesn't mean anything, it's proportion that matters, you'd need to be 8ft of lean muscle.I'm thinking a tadpole recumbent would be better suited to you, then pedal more than you motor, bring your mass down to 200-280 and then think bikes.There is a problem I see with many MAB'ers, they only pedal to get going then use the motor without so much as ghost pedaling, even ghost pedaling for 1000 miles will trim you up.
     
  18. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    Sounds like my money would be better spent on a good pair of walking shoes and a back brace.
     
  19. troyg

    troyg Member

    I don't know if that was snark, but seriously NO WAY would walking be better.You're 30yrs and 400 lbs (rounding up) you have precious little time before your metabolisim changes and it will then take two to three times the effort to lose weight.A recumbent trike will save your joints, so you can push, the more/longer you push the more weight you lose, energy in (food/snacks/beer/soda) energy out (adipose tissue).I ghost pedal all the time, my legs are like rocks, high cadence, low resistance FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE! Diets don't work, lifestyle changes do.
     
  20. TobiasKilroy

    TobiasKilroy Member

    Maybe it was snark, I have no idea either.
    My metabolism is glacial as it is, if it slows anymore I'd be dead.
    This weight is never coming off, regardless of what I do.


    I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again here.
    If I could afford to own a cager, I would, and to hell with this whole bicycle thing. What I want is a vehicle that isn't legally a vehicle.

    The reason I feel shoes might be a better purchase is because walking will be a more reliable means of transportation, not as a weight loss avenue. My MxB or any other bicycle I own is for transportation, not exercise, not recreation, not to look cool. These wheels are to get me to the grocery store, the doctor's office, or work. And if they can't be relied upon I might as well just walk.
     
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