Strike 3 Your Out or Homerun????????????

Discussion in 'Friction Drive' started by Bonefish, Mar 10, 2010.

  1. Bonefish

    Bonefish Member

    Strike one: BGF slant 68.5/80cc = blown after 250 miles

    Strike two: CH80 68.5/80cc = blown after 1,000 miles and lacing up at least three sets of spokes after sprocket bolts ate them for supper.

    Pergatory/Limbo: Considering going friction drive?!?!?????!!!!!!!? Any thoughts?

    Brass tax: I will not buy another one of those China 68.5/80cc engine kits. Money is too valuable to be thrown away.

    My stats/use: I weigh 145lbs, Live in Florida Part time during winter. Live in the Mountains Part Time for the Summer. Bike would be ridden every day as a commuter, on FL flat ground during winter, N.C. hills/mountains during summer.

    What should I go with? Was thinking about Robin/Subaru EH035 with a Friction Kit.

    What Kit and Why? Straton or BMP?

    I was thinking i should have two rollers, one for Florida flat ground and one for the N.C. mountains, but read your posts and found out that the Straton kit is hard to replace rollers.

    Was thinking about BMP and getting a 1.5" roller and maybe a 7/8" roller.

    Figuring i would use the 1.5 for Florida Flat Ground, and the 7/8" roller for N.C. Mountains.

    Do these friction kits/4 stroke motors climb hills mountains on there own?, or do you have to pedal them on semi-gradient inclines while applying the throttle to get them to climb?

    I'm at wits end.

    My CH80 blew its engine back in October in N.C. and now im in Florida pedaling my bike for the past 5 or 6 months everyday commuting. It sucks, but it beats the aggravation/hassle of dealing with those China 80cc **** engine kits.

    So this time I'm going to try and get input before i buy, rather than buying and then running here to fix a mess.

    BOTTOMLINE/FEASIBILITY:

    Looking for something: EFFICIENT, PRACTICAL, RELIABLE, SIMPLE that i CAN use every day as a daily Commuter.

    WHAT IS YOUR OPINION? WHAT WOULD YOU GET AND WHY?

    Thanks, don't mean to bore you with all the questions, but i look at the posts/replys and I see: eaten up tires, bad rubber rollers, ect. Am i getting into the same mess i got into with getting the China 80cc kits or is this a better alternative that will be hassle free and i can rely on using it every day?

    The kit would be mounted on a Gary Fisher Tassajarra Mountain bike.

    Thanks for any of your input, I appreciate it tenfold.

    SO should i swing at a Friction Kit, because it is a Homerun with the Japanese Robin/Subaru Combo?, or should i not even waste my time, because It will be my Third Strike, and im OUT of the MB picture entirely for good then. Anymore MB futile attempts would be insane.

    Thanks again,
     

  2. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    hi bonefish,

    sorry too hear about your experiences so far, but if end up getting the friction drive,it will be night and day compared to the china dolls !!!!!

    i have a staton kit it is bombproof, as far as engine kits the friction drives are the simplest and with a good setup you will wonder why you bothered with the china dolls in the first place.

    Can you say no more broken spokes !!!!!
     
  3. Gh0stRider

    Gh0stRider Banned

    I too, am looking to upgrade my bike. I currently have a generic china engine on it and while I haven't had any problems with the engine, I find it a little crude and loud. So I want to upgrade to system that is more quiet. Of course I see that less noise = more money. A scrubber drive would certainly be quiet, but I am worried about tire life as I use my bike a lot. (1000 miles a year!) But then again, having no chain to worry about and being ablt to lift the engine off the tire for pedaling without any parasitic drag are nice advantages. Still looking at chain drive options though but I read that some gearboxes are noisy. No point in a quiet engine and a whining gearbox.
     
  4. ut1205

    ut1205 New Member

    Friction Drive?

    I have had a Staton friction drive for about 8 months. Other than oil changes I have not done anything to it.

    The only downside in your case is if the street is wet. You can "nurse" it along on the "flats" but forget about hills. Even with a properly adjusted roller it will slip.

    I have the 1" roller and my top speed on "flats" is about 22 mph. It would probably drop to 19 with a 7/8" roller.

    I have a $10.00 1.95" semi-slick tire on mine. I just turned 300 miles and even though it does show some wear I see no reason why it will not go at least another 300 miles, maybe more. It seemed to wear rapidly when new (first 100 miles) but since then I can't really see wear at all. Very little black dust now. I don't think you can get this reliability out of a "China" motor for $20.00 per year (2 cheap tires).

    Other than roller tension (quick push with palm of hand) there is absolutely nothing to adjust. Lift the "drive" off of the tire and you have a regular bicycle. Should you have a rear flat tire it is just like changing the tire on a non motorized bike.

    Yes you do need to pedal some on hills but only to keep the engine rpm's in the higher ranges. Most moderate hills around here I can climb with pedal assist in 5th or 6th gear at about 15 mph. I have a 7 speed Landmark and "run out of gears" at about 19 mph. Above 19 I am totaly "engine dependant".

    I was going to upgrade mine to a GEBE but the kit, less the motor, is $350.00. That is almost the cost of my entire friction kit with the R/S motor. Since I don't have to ride in the rain I think I will just keep what I have.
     
  5. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Bonefish get ya a BMP kit with a HS motor theyre bullit proof and cheap.
     
  6. Bonefish

    Bonefish Member

    Thanks for your input and ideas,

    I put 5,800 miles on a bicycle a year. I reset my speedo at the beginning of a new year Jan. the 1st. to see how many miles i put on a bike. Dec 31st. came and showed over 5,800 miles. That was pedaling. No motor. I do not drive a car, so a bicycle or a MB has been my my sole mode of transportation for the past 4 years, and will be next year unless, i break down and give the man(government) what he wants to get my license back and then get a motorcycle because i have had enough of this MB bull****(i filled in the stars for ya)

    I like the idea of the MB because i can dupe the police and ride them on the sidewalk conservatively in Florida and in North Carolina and not get pulled over or busted. (or they just don't feel like bothering with me because there are other more important things they should be dealing/attending to)

    Get a load of this ****. I actually got pulled over on my bicycle once with out a motor. I have never got pulled over on a MB, and I rode one time almost the whole length of Florida on one. (400-500 miles doing a back country camping trip along the way on a china 68.5/80cc)


    Bottomline: Looking for the most dependable/reliable/economical setup on the market. I do not give a **** about whose MB is faster than whos. If i have a MB that I can ride everyday 20-30 miles with no problems, I would be happier than having a rocketship that goes 35mph but is sitting on cinderblocks half the time.

    Differences in the Straton/BMP:

    I noticed that the BMP kit is now made of 1/8" steel, where the Straton kit is made of 1/4" aluminum.

    Aluminum is more expensive, and one would think BMP is cutting corners to increase profits by going with the steel. But i look at the the clutch drums that BMP is offering with there kits, and notice they are the solid one piece High Quality Drums that Straton does not put in his kits. Straton gives you the less expensive welded clutch drums.

    The Trade Off: What would you rather have and why? What is more significant on durability/relability of the kits? A Roller Channel or a clutch drum?

    Then you have the 1.25 bearing roller that locks up/goes bad on some people in the BMP kit.

    I do not need another headache.


    The brass tax: Get a Friction drive, or save my money get my license back and get a Starter Motorcycle. Like a Honda Rebel or a Suzuki GZ250?


    Your input, ideas, and experiences shared are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks again,
     
  7. tjs323626

    tjs323626 Member

    I have a BMP kit with a RS 35. It will run all day long at about 20-25mph quiet and smooth as silk. I have several other mb's but when I go riding with my gf she always wants to ride the one with the BMP and RS 35. I( will build her one soon.
     
  8. ut1205

    ut1205 New Member

    You need a Motorcycle

    If you ride 5000+ miles per year you need a motorcycle or scooter (not Chinese).

    Concerning the "Channel" or "Clutch Bell" issue.....do a search on this forum and others for "Channel Failure" or "Clutch Bell Failure". I think you will find that they are "non issues". In almost a year I have only seen one thread about clutch bell failure and it was a BMP kit with a Titan motor.
    If changing the drive rollers frequently is an issue then I understand it is much easier with the BMP. I have seen multiple threads about the 1.25 BMP roller locking up but when it does I suppose it acts like a regular roller.

    Disclamer: This is my opinion only!!
    If I were unhappy with a Chinese two stroke then a Chinese 4 stroke is the last thing I would want to purchase. If I were to purchase another friction or chain drive kit I would insist on a motor made in Japan (Honda / Robin Suburu). I currently have the R/S.

    The cost of the Staton and BMP kits are almost identical. You can buy the Staton kit at:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Bike-Robin-Suba...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c10302590

    for $399.00 and free shipping.

    The BMP kit is $150.00 (kit) + $225.00 (motor) + Shipping Kit + Shipping Motor.

    Just my $0.02 worth.
     
  9. Elmo

    Elmo Member

    Get one of these, http://www.bikeengines.com/ Check out Bamabikeguy posts. He is deceased now but he put thousands of miles cross country on one of these.
    Elmo
     
  10. vegaspaddy

    vegaspaddy Member

    the main difference between the BMP and staton is that it easier to change rollers for different sizes on the BMP setup,

    if you check out 7 heavens postings in this (friction drive section) he played with these setups forever, and will give you plenty of good background reading.

    The golden eagle kits are excellent (tanaka 33, subaru/robin 35 in the garage) but as far as simple and no fuss setup friction wins hands down.

    My buddy is currently riding my staton friction drive, he lost his license DUI so hes been puttering around (with MITS TLE43) stealthy with a basket over the engine, still obsessed with the cops so we are going to convert him over to electric......(Now thats expensive !!!!!! batteries alone $600)

    Paranoia MANS BEST FRIEND,

    Either kit will pretty much run the same genric 2/4 or brand name engine.

    Do your research and it will payoff for you with a quality ride.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
  11. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    BMP setup is idiot proof and parts are 3 day delivery away or overnight if your feeling rich.
     
  12. Bonefish

    Bonefish Member

    Looks like any Friction kit would be a Ground Rule Double with the Robin/Subaru EH035.


    Has anyone ever tried mounting a 50cc motorcycle engine with factory gears/shifter on it on a bicycle?

    I don't mean the Morini/KTM 50cc conversions. They don't have gears.


    It seems like most of the problems arise from trying to achieve a proper transition of power to the ground. It seems like all the heartache, and wallets getting emptied is to compensate for this problem.

    I know a 50cc engine with factory gears/shifter weighs around 40lbs. That is alot of weight, but shifting the weight thru a series of 5 gears would seem to make the 40lbs not a problem. Again, I do not know i'm only speculating. If anyone has done this, I would love to see it.

    Maybe it is just me, But i would rather not pedal my MB/bicycle at all. I only want the bicycle drive chain still attached/working to............dupe the police, or pedal it if i run out of gas. I do not want to pedal it up a hill or pedal it to start off at a complete stop to help the motor.

    That is it.

    Hoping to find a kindered spirit, any info one might on one of these projects, i would greatly appreciate it. We have a shop where i could make/fabricate motor mounts.

    I would just like to see the groundwork laid out first, to see the feasibility and performance of this.

    Hope you understand, Thanks again for all your help.
     
  13. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    I would go GEBE.... with rs eho35. No questions asked... its superior to the staton and not a whole lot harder to install. I have both kits and the GEBE is better... there is a reason it costs more $$$.

    Can I ask what you did to those engines???? I have yet to blow one up and I have tried, even used NOS... I have 3 bikes using the HT kits, 1 zoombikes, 1 grubee, and 1 flying hoarse... maybe don't buy BGF??? Maybe its how you are breaking them in???

    I hear nothing but bad comments about bgf...
     
  14. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    A potential problem that arises with the tendency to pursue this is to get away from the spirit of simplicity of a MAB, motor assisted bicycle, as well as almost all state moped regs that require automatic/one speed gearing. There can develop a sort of 'mission creep' into a whole other vehicle classification.

    At some point a small motorcycle may begin to make the most sense.
     
  15. I have built 3 MBs. 1 Staton friction drive, 1 Staton chain drive, and a GEBE belt drive, all with Robin 35 engines. If I put as many miles a year on as you I would go with Staton's chain drive kit. It is bullet proof, should last for years and you can easily change the small drive sprocket on the gearbox to change ratios to suit different terrains. The GEBE set up is also good and also offers easily changed drive gears. I haven't had mine long enough to know how long the drive belts will last. It is certainly simple, light, and (if the belts last) would be my first choice. I have had zero problems with the Subaru Robin EHO35 4 cycle engines. They have adequate power and torque, give very good gas mileage, and mine start first or second pull everytime.
     
  16. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    yep... gebe kit is the best.

    I have both kits... I would choose the gebe kit hands down. Its smooth belt operation coupled with the low vibration highly reliable eho35 cant be beat. I even use it to haul my new trailer.... all I needed was a #14 gear.
     
  17. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    dont know how many hundreds of miles... still on first belt. Not even any signs of wear.

    I bought and carried an extra belt with me for a while, but gave up on it because it took up valuable space.

    my eho35 starts on second pull every time... its bulletproof.

    Stupid me... even ran it for the first two or three times w/no oil because I forgot to fill it when I installed the motor. They were short 5-10 min runs and I would DEFINITELY NOT TRY THIS ON PURPOSE... but the engine still runs strong and smooth to this day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  18. Bonefish

    Bonefish Member

    Is there anyone that lives in the Florida Keys in this forum that has a Friction Drive, a GEBE, or a Stanton Chain/Gear Drive? I have not seen one at all on the main road US1 down here. If someone had one, I would probably know it because the Overseas highway is the main artery, but i have not seen a single one. The one guy that used to sell the china 68.5/80cc kits installed on bicycles down here no longer sells them. The reason(cheap,china,junk). I'm in Marathon in the Florida Keys, MM 50. But I can travel to Key west MM1 thru Key Largo MM100 to test ride one. I was hoping someone would be kind and let me take a spin on there ride before I decide to get another/different MB kit. I'm in limbo if i should try another MB attempt or just get a motorcycle or a scooter. Thanks,

    or if someone is coming down to the keys and is bringing theirs with them, and let me test ride, I would appreciate it. If you are a fishermen, I can put you on some sweet bones. The fly fishing for permit is on. I have had lots of shots, and hooked a 25lber on fly. It wasnt even a crab pattern he sucked up. He sucked up one of my mantis shrimp patterns that i tie.

    Let me get on your bike and I'll put you on some bones.

    Tightlines and saltybehinds,
     
  19. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    I have a front Staton friction drive, a front BikeBug(untested), rear Staton and BMP housings. Also a Staton chain drive and scooterguy midframe/shiftkit(untested).

    I need to have the power to keep up with traffic. If not, it is too dangerous here to ride a motorized bicycle. If I need to pedal, I find safety on sidewalks, but I ride slow and ALWAYS ALWAYS give the pedestrian a lot of room and respect.

    Like the OP referred to, I'm the guy with the high-powered rocketships on cinder blocks. LOL. Senior citizen life keeps me busy, and so do my projects, my fulltime job. and night school. Thank God the kids are adults.

    I've probably worn through more rear tires and had more flats than anyone on this site. Probably swapped more friction rollers than y'all too. BMP housings are infinitely easier to change bearings and rollers than the other guy. Staton has an excellent 1.375" and 1.5" roller. You can swap them into BMP housings by changing clutch drums, spacers, rollers and bearings. It is simple enough to sand down the roller ends just enough to change the press-fit to slip-fit. You can now change rollers and bearings in less than 2 minutes, whereas swapping spindles and bearings in the other guy's drive housings cost you a day's downtime and $80 EACH TIME you do it. Bearings at a gokart online site costs $4.50/pair, whereas one vendor sells them for $13.50/set.

    Haven't tried the axle mount or NuVinci yet, or Happy Time stuff.

    For the bulletproof combination, I'd choose Staton chain drive and Mitsubishi TLE43cc engine. However, changing rear tires are a royal pain.

    Changing rear tires OFTEN on friction drive is a royal pain also. They wear through quicker because of the road surface materials and wet weather.

    Climbing medium hills with a 1.5" roller is an effort on a single-speed bike, but no biggie with multi-speed bike. A 1.5" roller on the flats is the bomb.

    Climbing hills with 1.375" roller is easier, might be the best all-around roller.

    My first MB had a Subaru 1.6hp engine and 1.125" roller on a Dahon folding bike. Good starter bike. A "widowmaker" with 2.2hp Mits engine and Staton chain drive.

    In my opinion, the best combination would be the scooterguy midframe/shift kit setup with Mits/Honda/Tanaka/Subaru engine. Not particularly keen about the long, exposed chain, but tire access would be same as regular bike. Tire wear would be excellent.

    I'm guessing that the ultimate setup for me would be a midframe Japanese engine with short chain and SBP/shift kit.

    :idea:Vendors should probably come up with this next.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2010
  20. Bonefish

    Bonefish Member

    Check this out, only three people down here in the Florida Keys that have motorized bicycles that i know of are: two people have china 68.5/80 cc kits. The other person down here only has one leg and has this kit. It looks high quality made in australia. Check out this URL: Called a Rotary bicycle engine kit

    http://www.rotarybike.com/rotarybike_products.asp?type=Petrol&pid=39&action=details

    Is says price is $1550.00 GST not sure what that is in US dollars. Looks like quality, and he cruises very quiet.

    Anyone have any reliability info on them?

    Thanks,
     
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