whizzer issues

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by frenchlayer, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    Folks,
    I was happy getting my 24" black ne5. I am having some issues though. I changed the main jet which was a #95, to an 88 and lowered the needle. The bike was running real rich and still is. I took it to my local whizzer dealer and he tuned the thing and changed the main jet, it runs great on the
    stand at full throttle, but when under load this thing dies out. I am wondering if there is a carb issue that I cannot pinpoint. The thing is still running rich as ****, and after all the tuning we cannot figure out why it won't run under a load. I can't make it up a simple incline with this thing. I rode the dealers 26" that he had and what a big difference. I am wondering if the original owner could not find the problem either and that is why they were using the #95 jet. I am at a loss here. I now want to sell this and my motorized bike so I can buy the red 26" 08. Any thoughts?:mad:
     

  2. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    I am hearing that a bunch of the 22mm carbs came with a #95 main jet. Mine did too. Mine also had a very small pilot jet that made it stumble off idle to about 1/3 throttle then it would run fine. Has the restrictor plate been opened up? Has the cam been advanced 1 tooth counterclockwise? This info may help diagnose the problem. Does yours idle well?
    Please post the answers so we can figure this out.
    Thanks
    Jim
     
  3. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi frenchlayer,
    What year is the black NE5? Most of the later models use the #88 main jet. The #95 was standard equipment on many models, but is way too rich, in fact the #88 is still on the rich side. How many miles on the motor? I have a large supply of main jets, but the most common is a #82 or #85. If the motor is older than late 2007, you may need to check the lifter settings. Try raising the needle to the center with the #88 jet and see what happens. Does the motor have the restrictor in place? Does the dealers 08 have the restrictor in place [not comparable if one has the restrictor and the other doesn't]. Does your model have the aluminum manifold?

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  4. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    This is an 05 with 980 miles. When getting this serviced, we went ahead and removed the restrictor plate. The dealers 08, still had his plate on. I have not advanced the cam tooth ccw. How exactly can I go about doing this?

    The needle was in the middle after replacing the jet, but I moved it to the highest position to see if that would help with it running rich. I will have to double check on the jet size to see if it is an 88 or 84

    The bike does idle well and for the aluminum manifold, Where do I look for that? Sorry not too mechanically inclined, but my MB i built with the 70cc dax does run great
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2008
  5. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    just checked and it is an #84
     
  6. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Check the lifters! The clearance on the lifters should be .009" [factory settings], but I set mine at .006" intake and .008" exhaust. The aluminum manifold can be purchased from any Whizzer dealer, and there are several on this site that should have them in stock. Most likely the camshaft is already advanced, but if not it is easy to do. Remove the side cover, find the dot on the camshaft and the crankshaft, turn camshaft one tooth counterclockwise, re-install side cover. If you lean the bike a little you won't even need to drain the oil. Be sure the check the bottom of the lifters to make sure they aren't badly worn, if so, purchase a set of mushroom lifters from one of the dealers on this site, as they always help everyone and deserve your business [plus they can help you if you run into problems, and are available a lot of the time]. # 84 should be close, just make sure the needle is in the center or in the second notch from the top.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2008
  7. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    Ok, I took the cover off the other day trying to figure this out. There is a dot on the cam and crank shaft, but they do not line up anywhere. There is a mark on one of the gears that did line up with the dot on the larger gear, not sure if it the cam or crankshaft, i believe it was the smaller gear to the right when looking at it from the side with the cover
     
  8. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi frenchlayer,
    The gear to the right is the cranksaft [smaller gear] and usually has 2 marks on it. One is usually a line, and the other is a dot. The line should be pointed towards the top of the motor, and the dot to the left. Pull the camshaft towards the cover side and re-insert it so the dot is to the left of the dot on the crankshaft [CCW]. Be sure to remove the camshaft entirely and look at the bottom of the lifters for exessive wear [common problem]. Feel free to call me if necessary at 252-475-0406 [cell] for additional information or help.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  9. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    Thanks guys for all your help. I will try this out tonight after work and post results.
     
  10. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    ok i screwed up> i was trying to advance it and accidentally pulled it all the way out. Now it is misfiring and I cannot get it started and do not know the correct way to put it back it:confused:
     
  11. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    Ok I'll try to help. Take the side cover back off. You should see a dot on the cam gear and a dot on the crankshaft gear. Turn the crankshaft gear so the dot is at the nine o'clock position. Then lift the cam and turn it until the dot lines up with the dot on the crankshaft gear. Then move the cam gear one tooth counterclockwise. That should cure the valve timing problem. Put the cover back on, add oil and you should be good to go. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

    Jim
     
  12. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    Thanks to Quenton for the phone call and help. I still have not been able to get it started but did take a look at the lifters, the back one is def. worn down quite a bit and this might be my problem. Anyone out there have the mushroom lifters in stock and how much do these run. Oh my wife is not happy with me:smile: I have given up for the night and will try again tomorrow, at least to get it to where it was.
     
  13. Egor

    Egor Guest

    Frenchlayer - The pic of the timing marks shows the proper placement for the marks, I know the factory marks are supposed to line up but this is how they cut down the HP. The second is of the cam make sure the lobs are not worn down also they should be the same height. The third is of an engine with the restrictor installed and no manifold, it would be in front of the carb. Do you have anyone that will move the timing lug for you? That is where you will get the most improvement. Take the lifter cover off and see what the clearance is, use the settings that Quinton suggested, if you have a wide setting that would indicate a worn lifter. Have fun, Dave

    PS: I hogged out the restrictor plate so it looks like it is still there, this is to keep PD happy if they care.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    alright kiddies, :grin:I got the camshaft advanced and now have the bike running again. It still boggs down under load but does fine on level and downhill. the back lifter is def worn down. Who has some replacement mushroom lifters for sale on here? and how hard is it to change these out?
     
  15. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    Well we adjusted and adjusted and the lifters are in fact the problem. The exhaust lifter has mushroomed big time. I was not qualified enough to tell what the problem was, but my neighbor helped. I was able to track down an old dealer, no longer one, but has replacement lifters, and lives no farther than 5 mins away. Once I get the old ones out I will post pics of the old mangled lifters for you. Hopefully after these are replaced, I can make it up that big ole hill and ride off into the sunset finally. At least I have taken this thing apart and put back together so many times, I am starting to learn a thing or two
     
  16. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi frenchlayer,

    DO NOT use stock lifters in your motor! If you use the earlier lifters from the WC-1 motor it will destroy the camshaft in only a few miles [less than 50]. If you replace with the softened version [what you presently have], they will wear at the base [usually in less than 200 miles] again.
    When the NE motor was first released [late 2004], I called Whizzer and told them the lifters are too small for the camshaft profile. I made a set of mushroom lifters and sent them to them as a model for future lifters, however they didn't want to go in that direction. Almost all NE motors [late 2004 to early 2007] have the defective lifters, and they finally used my idea of mushroom type lifters in the late 2007 and the 2008 NE motors. Of course it was much cheaper to use the existing stock of lifters and simply soften them with heat. I told them it wouldn't work, and could possibly destroy the motor, and in fact I saw several motors where the exhaust lifter had smashed and a piece broke off and found it way into the camshaft bearing and did major damage to the motor [destroyed the case beyond logical repair on one motor]. On another motor the metal locked the camshaft bearing, the camshaft, and spun the camshaft gear [goodbye camshaft].
    If you replace with mushroom lifters, it will enhance the power [just a little] because the valves are held wide open for a longer period of time. But remember the mushroom lifters are to keep your motor running longer, and the side effect of a little extra power is just a bonus.
    If you can't find mushroom lifters, it is possible to have a set made by using 1/2" drill rod, or find a set of vintage Whizzer lifters and cut them down [.3930"] to fit the lifter bores in the case [.3937"]. If you manage to locate a set of current Whizzer mushroom lifters, you should have someone drill out the center [way too heavy], reduce the height of the lifter base to between 1/8" and 3/16", and level the bottom [most are ground at an angle and will change clearance as the lifter rotates].

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  17. frenchlayer

    frenchlayer Member

    I am pretty sure these are the newer mushroom lifters. I will post pics when I get them to be sure. Thanks for the info!
     
  18. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi frenchlayer,
    They are very easy to identify. Stock are the same size from top to bottom, whereas the mushroom style has a 1/2" base and the rest of the lifter is normal size. If you need information concerning the modifications, just call.

    Have fun,
    Quenton
     
  19. Egor

    Egor Guest

    It is interesting the more I find out about this bike the more disappointed I am. This sounds just like one of those typical China companies that just care about the bottom line and nothing of the quality. They are living on the past icon from American history and selling it like it is what we had then. I still like this bike but after I have spent this much money you would think I could use it for a while without spending too keep it going. I hope I can keep the feeling going to get me through the crummy stuff. Have fun, Dave
     
  20. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    Hey Dave
    Please don't give up on your Whizzer. I upgraded a 2000 WC-1 and spent a long time and a lot of money getting the bugs out of it. Now I have it almost perfect and I am enjoying it more every time I ride. I got out on Saturday and put 15 miles on it and would have gone much longer but rain chased me home.
    I have a few engine mods to help it drag my large butt around too and they are worth every penny. The hills here make it hard to ride without the extra power.

    Milled head
    Hi lift cam (advanced 1 tooth CCW)
    Mushroom lifters
    26mm carb w/110 main jet
    Aluminum intake spacer (cut down to 1/2 inch long and tapered)
    Advanced ignition timing from 14 to 23 degrees BTC
    Iridium spark plug.
    70mm autoclutch
    Rear drum brake (for stopping the aforementioned large butt)

    I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging but I'm having so much fun I can't stand it. lol
    I could never have imagined that an engine this small could make as much power as it does.

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
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