Wollongong Australia, MB court case

[Macka]

There's no speed limit that I know of, but I am sure I read the guideline speed in a SAPOL brochure that stated a good guideline for power was speed and that 200W should only be able to get 20-25km/h

40/3 is 13km/h, so it is closer to 2X the speed limit, but even then, no limit....

 

[will_start]

ok, here's the result of the case, its two hours old news right now @ 7pm 6/10/10.

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/...imes-top-speed-on-motorised-bike/1960431.aspx

 

[AussieSteve]

After discussions with police, however, he learned 200 watts translated to about 50cc and speeds not higher than 15km/h, consistent with average human pedal power.

What a load of bull&*@%. 50cc HT engines generate about 1200W, not 200.

And regarding 15kph, more bull&*@%. My legal 200W electric purrs along at 25-30kph. 15kph is 9.4mph, far slower than the average cyclist. On the electric, I'm regularly passed by average cyclists.

This shows that the law has no idea.

I'd love them to pinch me on the electric. I'd have a ball taking that one to court.

 

[Macka]

I ride 15km in 40 minutes - I'm unfit, have no pedal assist and there are also several large hills to climb.

That's an average of 23km/h, it would be faster if it was all flat, and as I said, I am unfit, so a fit cyclist could go faster again.

 

[AussieSteve]

Yep. A few days ago I tried to keep up with a guy on a mountain bike on my electric and he left me for dead over several km.

The quote in my above post implies that 50cc engines are legal and can't go faster than 15kph. More BS.

I'm not riding my HT any more and rarely ride the electric, for health reasons, but it appears that in this area, if I get pinched on the HT, I only need to get the case transferred to Wollongong and present evidence that my engine is 50cc. (Therefore it can't go quicker than 15kph.)

That has nothing to do with current NSW law. The magistrate who presided over Velko Bozinovski's case was not qualified to do so.

 

[philski]

HI guys.

i can not believe the ruling from that judge in NSW?
Horsepower is a given unit of weight moved over a given time and distance.

1HP is exactly 0.45359237 m·kgf/s
that's meters, per kg, per second.
we want 1/4 of that to be under 200w

so, to find out your bikes actual horsepower output with a few hundred years of science to back it or yourself up in court if you ever need it. - weigh yourself with your bike. get on it and ride a set distance and measure your time.

as an example. My combined weight is 100kg, 220 pounds- doing a 1/4 mile in 60 seconds. is 0.24 HP that is under 0.27hp... or 200 watts. im geared to do that time.

Remembering just to keep it all quantified, a brand new police car would struggle to do it in 15 seconds!

Tas legislation:a pedal cycle with an auxiliary motor (or motors) with a power output (or combined output) of not more than 200 watts.

If our legislators or the courts / police or anyone else wants to measure the output of the motor alone- they need to call for torque. the rotational energy of the motor! not HP, they are different measures!

i would hate to see anyone get in trouble because of a very non scientific court ruling. hopefully the above helps us all get /stay out of trouble. ;-) too

The above is just using a very well known measure of power using science to back it up.
it is very provable and repeatable! And, is exactly what they asked for in their legislation!

There is also nothing in regard to speed on your bike in RTA NSW apart from wheelchairs and mobility scooters, so that judge not only made up his/her own bit of backyard science, he added new laws and conditions as well, bypassing legislative council, that may affect everyone in the future?
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/otherinformation/scootersminibikes.html?rlid=6

I would if i was Mr Bozinovski get a real lawyer (no offense to his other one) but they obviously did not do their job! IMO and get an appeal going straight away.

Kindest regards
Phillip

 

[Bobbyoutback]

HI guys.

i can not believe the ruling from that judge in NSW?
Horsepower is a given unit of weight moved over a given time and distance.

1HP is exactly 0.45359237 m·kgf/s
that's meters, per kg, per second.
we want 1/4 of that to be under 200w

so, to find out your bikes actual horsepower output with a few hundred years of science to back it or yourself up in court if you ever need it. - weigh yourself with your bike. get on it and ride a set distance and measure your time.

as an example. My combined weight is 100kg, 220 pounds- doing a 1/4 mile in 60 seconds. is 0.24 HP that is under 0.27hp... or 200 watts. im geared to do that time.

Remembering just to keep it all quantified, a brand new police car would struggle to do it in 15 seconds!

Tas legislation:a pedal cycle with an auxiliary motor (or motors) with a power output (or combined output) of not more than 200 watts.

If our legislators or the courts / police or anyone else wants to measure the output of the motor alone- they need to call for torque. the rotational energy of the motor! not HP, they are different measures!

i would hate to see anyone get in trouble because of a very non scientific court ruling. hopefully the above helps us all get /stay out of trouble. ;-) too

The above is just using a very well known measure of power using science to back it up.
it is very provable and repeatable! And, is exactly what they asked for in their legislation!

There is also nothing in regard to speed on your bike in RTA NSW apart from wheelchairs and mobility scooters, so that judge not only made up his/her own bit of backyard science, he added new laws and conditions as well, bypassing legislative council, that may affect everyone in the future?
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/otherinformation/scootersminibikes.html?rlid=6

I would if i was Mr Bozinovski get a real lawyer (no offense to his other one) but they obviously did not do their job! IMO and get an appeal going straight away.

Kindest regards
Phillip

Good post Phillip look forward to more from you !!!

Regards Bob.

 

[screaming emu]

Wow Phillip, there sure is a lot of workings out going on there, more reason to scrap the whole power output thing and just simply draw a line with a speed limit.

 

[Macka]

1HP is exactly 0.45359237 m·kgf/s
that's meters, per kg, per second.
we want 1/4 of that to be under 200w

so, to find out your bikes actual horsepower output with a few hundred years of science to back it or yourself up in court if you ever need it. - weigh yourself with your bike. get on it and ride a set distance and measure your time.

as an example. My combined weight is 100kg, 220 pounds- doing a 1/4 mile in 60 seconds. is 0.24 HP that is under 0.27hp... or 200 watts. im geared to do that time.

I'm not so sure about that equation, mkgf/s is metres times kgf per second

metres, per kg, per second would be m/kg/s. kgf is different to kg and per is different to multiply/times.

I found another equation which is hp = mass * (velocity/234)^3, all units are imperial.

m = 100kg = 220.462lb
v = s/dt
s = 402.336m = 0.25miles
dt = 60s
therefore, v = 6.7m/s = 14.998miles/hour

now we apply the equation:

hp = 220.462 * (14.998/234)^3
=0.058047hp = 43.286W

references:
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phphorsepower/horsepower_equation_trap_speed_method_horsepower.php

The problem with both of these equations is that they yield power at the wheel, not power at the shaft and it is under load so the losses will be greater and hence will vary more from the true wattage.

 

[will_start]

OK,

Nice workings, but I think I'd have trouble convincing an officer or a judge
of the above equations.

ALL below my humble opinion, his smartest move here was to plead guilty.
Often the cost of legal assistance in small matters can be 10 times
the fine cost.

We are talking Australian legal system which says you have to prove you're not guilty.
And anything legal costs at least $250 per glance, by a shark in a nice suit,
with a glint in the eye.

I'm experienced and the below diagram works for me.

:81: