Bike Build and Some Questions

Status
Not open for further replies.
How yall doin? So I guess this is the pace to start...

I had joined motorizedbikeforum.the-talk.net but was sorely disappointed with the complete lack of response to nearly everything after waiting their mandatory 7 days before I could even post links (and couldn't post pics at all), so I'd like to post my story here for all willing minds to consider. So, continuing on...

This is my build so far:

Shall I start from the beginning? Well, I got this particular bike at least 15 years ago (maybe more), and rode it a good bit for about 3 years, until school and chores ate up all my free time, so its been sitting quite a while. Well, while roaming around on youtube, I saw this guy Panofish putting an engine kit on his bicycle. I had been contemplating buying a motorcycle or motorized bike, so this sparked my interest. I went on ebay and found a kit from "motor99motor". I got instructions but they weren't very good (as I heard), and the support from this seller was minimal, so I consulted youtube for most of the build. I got the VERY useful advice that on the slant plug engines, you could just rotate the cap 180 to make it fit in a tight frame. I'm going to post PICTURES *in* LINKS for the sake of continuity for this story format. See the comparison for spark plug mounting here:
Spark Plug Original and After Rotating Cap

You may notice that I had to make my own front motor mount, I used pipe strap and a piece of conveyor belt since the kit didn't come with the optional mount the instructions said to use.

Just for reference, I notice on youtube that nobody really has a good close-up of their wiring, so
here's mine. The connectors have double ends on them, so I went blue to blue, black to black, then ran the kill switch to both sides. I don't think the colors on the kill switch matter since all you're doing is shorting the spark module. Just a thought - the white wire is probably for a tachometer...

At this point I should probably say I haven't seen a new bike since I got mine years ago, and apparently they now come with a lot of mounting points for fancy things (found that out while looking for racks and disc brakes), so bear in mind the age of this bike and my lack of knowledge of newer bikes and bicycles in general (as I was never a cycling buff). That said, I'm very unfamiliar with the naming of bike sizes, but I get the feeling my bike was smaller than the engine manufacturer intended, so I've got this little problem. (For future reference, I measured my bicycle rim *inside* diameter, and it
measures about 20"... does that mean I have a 20" bike?)

As you might have noticed
here, in order to even make the carb fit in the frame I had to turn the intake manifold upside down. This puts the carb at a pretty steep angle from vertical, and I suspect that might cause an issue with the float. So thats my first major problem. Any suggestions for that? I've come across a type of angled extended manifold by BoyGoFast; looking at how the engine is right now, do you suppose that would work? I thought about taking some EMT conduit and welding up my own manifold, as I am capable of some simple fabrication like that, but I'm not sure what the rules are for distance from the carb to engine. But anything besides my current manifold would probably flow better, I looked inside that one and it needs some serious porting.

The next issue I have is this - I don't like the supplied chain tensioner. Yes, its made of sturdy stuff, but aside from the fact it is not spring loaded, it looks really unprofessional, clunky, and isn't very adjustable as far as putting it inline with the chain. So I really want to use something else. I looked around and found other rigid type tensioners such as
this one and nicer ones like this one, and found some spring types like this one and some a little fancier like this one, but it seemed to me like the best route to go would be a derailer (derailleur? whatever) , so this is what I got. A derailer would spring tension it while allowing me to precisely align it with the chain. I'm probably gonna use pipe strap to mount it since I couldn't find any instructions for mounting one on the right side using the hub mount. I might additionally use one of these rigid mounts to help stabilize the chan, or possibly use it's mounting base for the derailer since it is made for tube mounting.

So, my build so far looks like this:
*Before doing any work, I had to take the rims off and get new tires, as these were the 15 year old originals and would pop off the rim due to having a stretched bead.
*This is how it looked after getting the new tires mounted and installing the drive sprocket. I managed to get it perfectly center but still wobbles a *tiny* bit from side to side cuz one of the meaty chunks of rubber has a bit missing from it.
*Here was my first problem during installation. Come on, wouldn't it be easier to make that mount larger and have an adapter to go down smaller? A lot of bikes have a larger tube in front. Anyways, thats where the pipe strap came in.
*Finally got the engine mounted.
*This is after putting the new grips on. You can see here where I didn't put on the clutch lever first. That handle was a real pain to get back off, I had a hard time getting it on in the first place! Unfortunately after getting the clutch lever back on and reinstalling the grip, that inner plastic ring broke (actually it broke earlier, but not that bad). You'd think the manufacturer would realize the rubber will expand after pressing it on.
*Here is a back view of how it looks now. Also a front view. I still havent secured any cables or wiring yet. The main thing I'm waiting on now is getting the chain fixed up. Yes, I know I'm supposed to take some links out. I'm waiting for my chain repair tool to arrive in the mail. I might also look for a half link to take additional slack out, if there are any available for that kind of chain.

Some things I have on order:

*Chain Tool
*The aforementioned derailer
*A speedometer
*A new seat with brake light
*Rear "running" light
*LED 3-watt Headlamp
*White Tire Flys

I've seen the turn signal units but they all seem dim, blink too fast, and are pretty crappy in general. Also, depending on who you get yours from, they look the same but have different internals, so some are more crappy than others. I decided I probably don't need a turn signal. The reason I got that particular seat is because of the brake light - its the only one I saw that had *only* a brake light with a *physical switch*. All the other stand alone brake lights were some kinda "smart" or "intelligent" mess, which I think wont work properly because once you're up to full speed, any kind of deceleration or road bumps could activate the inertia sensor and give people false braking, after which they'll start ignoring your brake light cuz they don't think you're really braking. I think those kind are dangerous. I'm not sure if the seat light will have a dim "running light" mode, so I got the other light to act as a "running light" at night. The way it mounts, I think it will fit nicely on my factory rear reflector mount. I got two of the headlamps to help with people's perception of how far away I am. I find it very difficult to tell how far away a motorcycle is at night with only one headlamp, especially when the dummy has his brights on all the time and you cant see his two side markers, if he had any. I got the white tire flys as a cheap "ring of fire" imitation. The most noticeable motorcycle I ever saw was a guy who had the ring of fire kit on his motorcycle. His buddy in front had all kinds of multicolor LEDs and ground FX and lights everywhere you could think of, but the guy with the ring of fire was way more noticeable, so I think those will be good for night riding. And they're not any sort of legal color like blue or green or red, so I don't think the cops will have a problem with it.

One more note about the bike so far - I haven't secured any cables or wires, so it is a bit messy looking right now. I will fix that after everything I plan to put on is installed. And yes, my kitchen is messy. I don't have any other workspace though, so it usually has stuff all around
icon_tongue.png


As soon as everything comes in I'll post another update. Please let me know what you think of it so far and if you have any suggestions for the carb!
Happy building!
icon_smile.gif



....
So, an update already, since I been wasting time on that other forum
icon_tongue.png

I ordered a few more things for my bike, namely:
A
tachometer to keep an eye on my engine speed;
A
seat cover to go over my new seat, since the seat itself didn't have the little indention for privates (!);
And a fully adjustable
rack (with a rack adapter to make it fit the top rail) for carrying whatever I decide needs to be carried on my trips.

I've also gotten a
few personal protection items to take care of any slow speed road rash that might occur (in case anyone overlooked it, all the colorful words are links
icon_tongue.png
). Everything is made of leather and I'm looking at a few other protection items too, like wrist guards and some kind of leather pants.

I'll post another updated picture of the bike once some more installations have been done.
 

Chain Driven

New Member
Local time
12:19 AM
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
25
Location
Down South
Fabian's list:
1) Bike with front and rear disk brakes - absolutely essential I looked into disc brakes but I'd have to completely change the rims out for rims that already have them or are set up for them. I have also read that if they aren't hydraulic, they don't work well, and that cantilever and v-brakes have more stopping power - does anyone agree with that?
Years ago me and my brothers would have skid stop competitions, and I know back then my cantilever brakes had enough power to lock the tires.
2) Proper set of integrated mirrors and indicators like the Winkku system - absolutely essential I found an instruction sheet and according to the sheet it has to go into the ends of the handlebars. I will look into those later, but for now I can clearly see behind me with the ones already mounted. Thanks for pointing those out though.
3) Sick Bike Parts shift kit - absolutely essential and now available with optional left hand side and right hand side chain tensioners For now I'm going to test out the original drive system that came with the motor, lots of youtube videos shows it working quite well. Also that shift kit is pretty expensive and it seems to come in more than one version which is not clearly outlined by the supplier.
4) Jaguar CDI - absolutely essential if the engine is to have a long and happy life I will be looking into this one.
[...]
8) Brake light - not essential by the law, but in reality it is an essential item when riding on the road. I have one built into the seat and it works very good, with a physical switch mounted to the brake cable. :tiny:
9) Bicycle trailer - not essential but very handy for carting tools and spare parts if venturing on long distance rides, or rides where there is a chance for mechanical damage to occur. I'm going to check with a steel supply near me and see about building one. I would like to use normal bicycle wheels on it but need to check if they can be mounted without using a fork mount.
10) Good set of high power front bicycle lights - essential I just put two high lumen LED bicycle headlights on the front handlebars last week, you can see them from the pictures in my 2nd post. :tiny:
11) Centre mount bicycle stand - not essential but very convenient for lubricating the chain drive system, or for repairing flat tyres. I've seen some people say they're no good, so is there a brand and/or type I should stay away from, or one in particular to seek out?
12) Thorn proof tubes with slime - essential if you do not want to repair flat tyres. With slime, as in, putting that tire flat slime stuff in them?


throttle cable... learn to SOLDER as that is what is on the ends of the cable.

Thanks for heading me in the general direction for these cable ends, and I'm one certification away from NASA quality soldering. But after some research into this, its more along the lines of brazing, and you don't want any tin in the mix as is common for most solders. As I suspected, the ends of (home-made) cables are solid lead, but they are melted onto the cable, contrary to my belief of being crimped. I actually found this super cool DIY video of how to do it:

DIY cable end video! :eek:

The word "solder" is in the title but using a torch and flux paste, "brazing" more accurately fits the process. I think I'll try and make my own mold for this and see how that works. A ceramic terminal block will probably work good.


ok... lets start with the pipestrap...no no no and NO.. make a proper mount or buy one
Tip 1:
[...] the seat post [...] TAKES ALL THE FORCE!
all the drive force resistance is being handled by the seat post all the front mount has to do is resist the left side pulling torque force
A "proper" home-made mount sounds like a contradictory term :D
But I will be looking into other options. I do think this current mount can resist what weedeater-type twisting force this engine could muster though. A bigger concern for me is why my drive sprocket tooth spacing seems to be smaller than the chain. As previously mentioned (in my 2nd post), the chain does not seat well into the sprocket, even after carefully dremeling out the space between teeth. I have not yet found where anyone else had this problem?

Questions still on my mind:
***After some searching, I've seen people call for half links for a "415" chain. With relative certainty, can someone tell me if thats the chain that came with my kit? Also is "415" the base category or are there yet more subcategories to this?
***As mentioned above, has anyone else had this problem with the chain not seating well on the engine's drive sprocket? If so, what did you do?
***Can someone with a 26" or 27" bike measure the inner diameter of the rim that came on the bike and tell me what it measures in inches? I just want to get a general idea of my speedo's accuracy.

Thanks for all the responses :tiny:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

grinningremlin

Active Member
Local time
10:19 PM
Joined
Jul 30, 2012
Messages
603
Location
NM
Isn't it funny how new members are expected to read the entire contents of a forum,
While existing members don't like to read detailed posts? tl;dr. orly?
It's more that what you have written, is more of a question blog than a post.I get 4-6 sentences in and usually say "I'm done".One question at a time, OR read read read.I searched the forum for a year and a half before I signed up just to get info on my first purchase.I'm willing to bet every question you have has been dealt with way back.Not chiding, just remember the most of us are Americans with an American attention span.Fortunately for you I know zero about frame mounts,... wink.
 

Chain Driven

New Member
Local time
12:19 AM
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
25
Location
Down South
I understand that deep within the bowels of every forum, somebody may have somewhat or vaguely, or if I'm lucky, exactly answered a question I have, but realistically I don't have that much time on my hands. I do search first then ask questions later if I didnt find what I was looking for - but I try my best to search first. I did a quick add-up and there are 2,364,416 posts just in the first two sections as of this moment (that excludes the posts in "Motorized Bike Parts & Suppliers", "Electric Bike Area", and "Off Topic" sections). I really would like read all of that for knowledge's sake but thats not realistic, and search only works if I know the correct keywords. That said, I expected to get backlash for my new signature, cuz every forum follows this general "go find it yourself" ideal, but I really appreciate those who step outside the mass mentality and reply anyway, and more so the people that have actually read enough to realize the bike is in the kitchen and not the laundry room. That doesn't really matter to anyone except me, it being seriously in the way and whatnot, but anyone who knows that probably knows the entire story and not just what they got from skimming through. Simply reading an entire post, and knowing all the details, can save a bit of confusion for both sides. I'm often asked a lot of questions later if I don't post the details upfront, so I don't understand the disdain to posting all the details to begin with. Most of the questions I have would be more easily answered than the roundabout way I'm told to go find it myself. If I know something, I don't mind telling a person about it, and if someone else asks the same question, it certainly doesn't bother me to tell that person either, especially if it is something short to say. Ex: "Your chain is XXX type and XXX model", then I would say "Thank you!" and happily go searching for a half link. But it seems thats too bothersome and I'm rather told to go find it myself because somewhere in the internet that has probably been answered.

But I have been searching, and while I found a few interesting things here and there, I'm pretty much still down with some questions about it.

So here are some questions: <== I put that in bold underline so people who wanna skim will notice the questions and save their eyes from the rest...
*** I've read some things that showed up in search for "half link" and have received the impression that these motorizing kits can vary widely. I've seen people inquire about half links for "#415" chain and also seen postings about "#41" chain. I have no idea how you can tell if its either one. If there is a wide variety that is cross compatible with this kind of chain, then could I just get a half link for either one and it would work?
*** Has anyone else had the problem with the chain not seating well on the engine's drive sprocket? If so, what did you do? (if I am to search for that, I'll need a good relevant search term as google doesn't take kindly to putting that whole question in there)
*** I found elsewhere in the internet that a "26 inch tire" has a 22-inch rim, but it doesn't say if that was inner diameter or outer. I didn't see any smaller sizes listed so I'd guess that's what size tire I have. But I still don't know if a "26 inch bike" comes with "26 inch tires". I would like to have some idea about my speedo and knowing what size tires a 26-inch bike has, along with the info KCvale gave me, will give me a really good idea how close it will be.

And now I'd like to personally thank everyone who has replied so far along with what you helped me with, because I don't want to give the impression your replies weren't appreciated and I do read all your replies.
:tiny: :tiny: :tiny: Thank You to: :tiny: :tiny: :tiny:

bluegoatwoods for the manifold suggestion, willingness to stick with this topic, and appreciation for details
KCvale for the detail about motor mounts, how to measure bike size, and speedo info
IbedaYank for letting me know how cable ends are done
Fabian for the list
jaguar for the carb info
grinningremlin for the general posting suggestion
thomasready for the nice comment :tiny:

Also I just wanted to mention, I am very light-hearted in what I type here so please don't read all this like all very seriously and be mad at me, I do make comments in jest from time to time and I'm not here to tick off anyone.

Thanks for all your replies so far! :tiny:
 

Bzura

Member
Vendor
Local time
12:19 AM
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
128
Location
Bethlehem, PA
Wow, I just read "almost" all of this thread.

To the OP - this IS a one-size-fits-all thing you are talking about. You got a HT engine & so do most of us here. You're putting it in a smaller bike frame. A lot of us have done that too. You need to make your own part because something that came with the kit doesn't fit right - WELCOME TO MOTORIZED BIKES!!! We ALL have had to fabricate something for our MB's at one time or another. There are no Chevys & Fords here. Just Chinese engines & bikes with 2 wheels.

I do have a comment about comparing your MB to a weedwacker for your engine mount. Weedwacker a don't pull a heavy chain on one side that drives a wheel with a load of whatever you + the bike weigh. Strapping will NOT HOLD UP. Think about buying a universal mount (plate & u-bolt) or making one. The pipestrap will fail.

As of the front sprocket - I have had to file the squareness off of the top of the teeth before to allow the chain to roll more smoothly. But the I've never had a problem with the spacing of the teeth, and I wouldn't think filing in between them is a good idea. Did you get a different chain?

I want to answer more questions, but I just can't remember them all. It really is best to stick to one (2 tops) questions per thread or post. Most people just get overwhelmed & give up reading after a couple of paragraphs.

Just to back up what some members have said here: I have been building bikes for a few months now & I just signed up for this forum a month or so ago. I have built 30+ MB's in that time, and I have found every single answer to every question I have had by using the search feature. There are also a lot of great pics to go along with problems/solutions that you will have.

I don't know if you think the strapping you're using is good enough for the engine mount, but if you continue to use it after multiple people told you IT WILL FAIL then I do not feel bad for you. If you ask for advice & then tell the people who took their time & wisdom to give it to you that they are wrong, well, someone like that cannot be helped. I hope you're not like that.
 

Bzura

Member
Vendor
Local time
12:19 AM
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
128
Location
Bethlehem, PA
Here's the chain info.

And you also want to use Google to search as well. I found this on google in under a minute. It's all about the 2 chains you're asking about...
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?20036-Does-anyone-have-specs-on-410-and-415-chain

ine last thing about the chain not seating. I'm not sure what you mean by that. It it popping off of bunching up at the front sprocket? Your engine may not be sitting straight (or it might be wobbling at the front mount due to the strapping) and it may be making the chain mad enough to want to leave. Chains are only happy when they are in a straight line, they really don't have a flexible personality.
 

Fyre Koiss

New Member
Local time
11:19 PM
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
15
Location
Arkansas
I have to agree on the front motor mount. Please for your safety build something else. It's insanely easy to build something more sturdy then that on the cheap.

Two u-bolts like this:
506227_front200.jpg


A plate like this:
gm_ubolt_plate__35782_zoom.jpg

And you would have a MUCH better and sturdier mount. Similar to this but with two bolts instead of one:
082.jpg


One would work, but two is much sturdier. I would also recommend a rubber tube be put over the u-bolts to help prevent noise and vibration and offer a better fit.

I can't help you with the engine sprocket issue... I have never heard of one not fitting the chain... is the motor used or new? May not apply to these bikes, but I had an old chain driven pump that I was fixing up. The chain stretched beyond use and didn't fit the gears anymore. I had to get a new chain. Of course that thing was probably the size of a standard bike chain... it was rather pathetic...

Speedo issue is easy... most bike Speedo's will work accurately based on the tire size your bike states it is. So if you have a 26" set it for 26". If you want better accuracy, you might consider GPS as an alternative (free if you have a smart phone). Bike Speedo's are almost never perfect even when set properly.

I'm sure there is some great and accurate $80+ one that can track you by... I dunno the speed at which you waste your money on a tiny electronic RPM calculator. However, for the common $10-$30 type, they pretty well just get 'close enough'.
 

Chain Driven

New Member
Local time
12:19 AM
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
25
Location
Down South
Bzura:

Thanks for your reply. I do use search as much as I can, but don't always come up with something if I don't have a starting point or general idea of what I'm looking for. The starting point would be any sort of info about the chain I have, which consequently would answer the question, "what kind of chain do I have?". But you've said that I probably have the same kit as most everyone here, so I can more confidently assume I have "415" chain and get a half link. Thank you for the link about other chains, that will be excellent reference if I ever need another or want to change the type.

What I mean about the drive sprocket is, its as if the teeth spacing and chain spacing aren't the same, but really close. I'm using the chain that came with the kit. I've ground out more spacing in the drive sprocket teeth, but it's still a pretty tight fit, and I couldn't get it completely around the sprocket before doing that. My guess would be that it was poorly cast, but I haven't seen any other posts about this problem. I tried to remove the sprocket but it is press fitted pretty tight. I have read that its supposed to slide off after the nut is removed, but it doesn't. I tried gently tapping and prying but its still on there really tight.

Fyre:

I am not ignoring front motor mount suggestions, so thank you for those. I don't plan to keep the pipe strap, its a placeholder for the moment.

For the speedometer, I just wanted to find out from anybody who has a speedometer, what your tire size is. From what I understand so far, tire size and bike size are not the same - so even though my frame is smaller, if I have the same size tires as someone with a "26 inch bike", then the speedometer I have will be fine for my bike because it says it was made for a "26 inch bike" (it doesn't say what tire size, just bike size). This one doesn't have any adjustments on it.
 

KCvale

In memory of KCvale 1959 - 2019
Local time
10:19 PM
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
3,508
Location
Phoenix, AZ
From what I understand so far, tire size and bike size are not the same - so even though my frame is smaller, if I have the same size tires as someone with a "26 inch bike", then the speedometer I have will be fine for my bike because it says it was made for a "26 inch bike" (it doesn't say what tire size, just bike size). This one doesn't have any adjustments on it.
Just measure the diameter of your wheel from the outside of the tire.
If it 26" on the money your speedo will be accurate, if it's a little taller your speed will show slightly slower, if it's smaller that 26" it will read faster.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top