Build Them, Sell Them, Stimulate The Market

[eltatertoto]

Put it all together,ride it,tighten stuff down then stamp it with the elatertoto seal of approval!
I'm looking out for old school 10 speed bikes with that crazy bend handlebar myself with those thin tires. I bet happy timing that would be extremely painless. I would change the handlebar definetly and keep the skinny tires for speed.

large, i love the eltatertoto seal idea! lol but, if ur lookiing for a racin bike like i got, `1 word BEWARE if u get the exact same bike as me, beware the bottom of the back triangle. the chain hity the frame, and my dad wanted to make it look like we didnt do nothin, so what we did, was find his old car spring compresser you put it through the car's spring and thwn open the hooks and crank. well, we used it backwards to widen the frame. tooks us hrs to try to figure out what to do. but if that happens to anyone, now ya know wat to do but, if ya want my curly bars ya can have em. and i have a spalding racing frame from the 80s if ya want that.... if u dont want it it goes to the trash.... friday is trash day. only stipulation is i dont have money to ship. sooooo yr choice. i might have the derailurs. i have the stem and the forks and bars also. but i sold the wheels for money to fund my projects.... if ya want pics pm me, but if ya dont want it ya arnt gonna hurt my feelings

 

[HoughMade]

Don't take this as legal advice- every situation is different get the advice of a lawyer in your location.

First of all, so you know I may know what I am talking about when I say what I would or would not do- I am an attorney and this will be my 10th year in practice. I graduated from law school in 1998 and I teach business law for one college and an ethics related class for a law school. I do tort litigation and have done products liability defense. Here are my general thoughts on this issue:

1- Liability insurance- There is no way I would build something for another without liability insurance in place that would apply to this matter specifically. Most policies include a duty to pay for a legal defense, I would want that. I would not trust any current homeowner of umbrella policy to cover me. I would want nsurance as to this specific undertaking.

2- Release, hold harmless, etc.- If it were me, I would get an attorney to draft it and use it. In my state, properly drafted, it can be valid and enforceable, but that varies place to place. I will not give any specifics on how to draft it as I am not giving advice.

3- Never sell to a minor- There are special duties and the release will be no good. Parents, in many situations, cannot release a claim on behalf of a child and a minor does not have the legal ability to contract for himself. I personally would never sell to a minor. Sorry guys.

4- All I could ever do is try to protect myself in the event of a lawsuit. I could never, never, never, do anything to "prevent" a lawsuit. People sometimes like to ask: "can I be sued for this or that?" The answer is "Yes" I don't even need to hear what the "this or that" is. There is nothing that can prevent me from being sued. If I get sued, it will cost money to get the matter resolved even if I am in the right and there was no good basis for the lawsuit. Whine about it, freak out about it, cry about it, say it ain't right- grow up- that is the reality.

5- I would incorporate. I will not go into all the reasons, but look it up. I will just say this. I have some nice stuff. (See #1 as well) You may not own anything people want. I may, I would do anything in my power to protect it.

That being said- if, taking all that into account, I could make it pay- I would consider it. Quite frankly, if I wanted extra money, probably spending a bit more time in the practice would be simpler for me so this will stay a hobby for me.

 

[graucho]

HoughMade, thanks for that. Great info. As Ive said before, if selling these to strangers is to risky, how do we stimulate the market? What are good ideas to get people to build there own, so we can see hundreds on the road?.

 

[HoughMade]

The first thing that comes to mind is to build them well, make them look cool and look like you're having fun riding.

- don't get me wrong, I do not mean to discourage anyone, I'm just saying what I would do if I would decide to get into selling them. There is a lot to consider, but there usually is in any business venture.

 

[sabrewalt]

Selling Motored Bikes.

This is a lot like Homebuilt airplanes vs Factory built. The FAA give a homebuilder a lot of latitude make changes because the liability rests with the builder who can't sue himself. As long as we build our own stuff, we are in a different class than appliance buyers.

Right now these things are just bicycles that an owner happens to make a few modifications to. That may be part of the reason the cops don't bother us too much. If 20000 of these things all of a sudden showed up on the streets of Dallas because of a big ad campaign by a new manufacturer, would the MAN not sit up and take notice including DOT. CPSC OSHA and so forth.

What should we wish for here!!

 

[SirJakesus]

It really doesn't make any sense to me how there could be these kid toys powered by 2 strokes selling everywhere in public but not the Happy Time.
What's up with that?
You would think these 2 stroke kits would be selling everywhere you turn.

It makes total sense to me. Most people are lazy as heck. Most people would rather run their stuff into the ground rather than perform routine maintenance by themselves let alone actually have to build or even ASSEMBLE something.
When I bought my XR75 the lady at the store said she had some in stock out back but (in a hushed voice) they're not assembled though, if you want we could have our assembler do it for you tomorrow. I told her I much rather put the bike together myself and she looked at me like I was from some other planet. From her response I could tell most people probably get all P-O'd at her when she tells them that and instead opt to drive all the way back there in their gas guzzler rather than taking an hour to piece a few parts together and adjust the breaks and shifters. From my experience unless you get your cycle from a professional bike shop for double the price in-store assembly is shoddy. You end up with your brakes rubbing or not tight enough and your handlebars twisting around on you on the second ride. You want another example? Look at how many people are too darn lazy to even brew their own coffee (even the singles tea bag style) and instead decide to wait in a drive thru line every single morning for a cup of joe at a ridiculous price. Most in this country are way too eager to waste their money on convenience rather than deciding to be self sustaining individuals.

 

[HoughMade]

Good point.

One thing that is more of a headache thing than a legal thing would make me less want to build and sell is this: Sell a kit and the person you are dealing with is a person fully expecting to do the assembly and even if not a mechanixal whiz, wants to be one. They expect to have to tinker, fiddle, adjust, maintain, check and tighten. Sell a completed product and more often than not you are dealing with someone who wants to gas (and oil) and go. If they wanted to tinker, they would have bought the kit. When little issues arise, they will continually be at your door wanting you to do something about it or accusing you of doing a poor job. It's just the nature of these things that they require more owner involvement and most people don't want to get into that. However, that is why I am into this.

 

[Skyliner70cc]

personally, I think if you want to make money selling pre-built bikes, you should stand behind your wares
using fake e-mail addys and such makes it kinda shady, (IMHO) and will not give the motoredbike movement a good name
I would never buy something from someone who wasn't upfront with me

Has nothing to do with standing behind my wares. It has everything to do with the average idiot american not knowing how to turn a wrench and do preventative maintenance and then suing me for selling them a "defective" bike. Its reality caused by our litigious society where too many jump on the lawsuit lottery bandwagon.

I also am anonymous because many of my customers are shady characters. As an example: one was convicted of kidnapping his girlfriend and lost his driver's license for having a lot of cocaine in his trunk. He wanted a motorized bike as means of getting to his required meetings with his parole officer, counselor, and work rehab stuff. This guy got nasty because he destroyed two engines in a month, blamed me, and made some veiled threats that I didn't appreciate. The first engine he destroyed was because he was using 50:1 oil ratio as per the instructions on the oil label even though I told him to use 6oz per gallon...the second engine he destroyed when he dropped the bike and engine mounts broke.... I replaced the first motor but wouldn't when he came back a second time and then the harassing phone calls began.....

Azkronic, you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[fastboy9]

Has nothing to do with standing behind my wares. It has everything to do with the average idiot american not knowing how to turn a wrench and do preventative maintenance and then suing me for selling them a "defective" bike. Its reality caused by our litigious society where too many jump on the lawsuit lottery bandwagon.

I also am anonymous because many of my customers are shady characters. As an example: one was convicted of kidnapping his girlfriend and lost his driver's license for having a lot of cocaine in his trunk. He wanted a motorized bike as means of getting to his required meetings with his parole officer, counselor, and work rehab stuff. This guy got nasty because he destroyed two engines in a month, blamed me, and made some veiled threats that I didn't appreciate. The first engine he destroyed was because he was using 50:1 oil ratio as per the instructions on the oil label even though I told him to use 6oz per gallon...the second engine he destroyed when he dropped the bike and engine mounts broke.... I replaced the first motor but wouldn't when he came back a second time and then the harassing phone calls began.....

Azkronic, you are entitled to your opinion.

woah! see what you mean, thats definetely put a new perspective to it. I guess its best to do it one off, informally.