GT Black Cat

[greenevegiebeast]

Wavy that is the point. I know I have not been part of this site as long as you, but there are alot of us that are just getting into the hobby/way of life. Yes the H.T. engines leave alot to be desired. That is the resion we start modding it, many of the modds have the added benifit of improving the emisions, many dont. It goes the same way with every thing you tinker with. The chines engines are a starting point for many new comers to the mb comunity. The comunity you love.

BTW the CARB vehicles you keep talking about are mostly made in Mexico, China, Inda, and Pakastan. Only a few are "Assembled" in america. I know I work in the industry. Look at the tags in your local autoparts store. Wells manufacturing makes many of the O.E. parts, and they have China and Inda all over them.

 

[augidog]

i really don't understand the confusion...after almost 2 years and dozens of engines i came to the conclusion that the one thing that does assure quality and value is that epa/carb label. it's that simple.

the tanaka i run is made in japan by a long-time leader in 2-stroke technology. the 4-stroke robin subaru eho35 that gebe offers can make the same claim of leading-edge quality. both companies import their products thru proper channels and provide proper documentation (indicating fair trade, another big issue with me)...and, the rest of the gebe setup is manufactured by american companies, and hand-assembled in lansing MI.

as i said, it's simple. as far as holding firm on the cal. emmissions standards, it's because i believe that the barest minimum that is set by c.a.r.b. for the SI-SORE's is way-so-NOT too much to ask for.

as i've said many times, and we've proven thru action...the consumer can force quality and compliance...i don't mind saying, tho...i kinda resent having to "force" the market to improve itself, but it does speak volumes about the people who are bringing you the HT...is it about value to the consumer or the quick-buck (at appalling markup) from the consumer? anyone paying attention knows the answer to that.

 

[greenevegiebeast]

i really don't understand the confusion...after almost 2 years and dozens of engines i came to the conclusion that the one thing that does assure quality and value is that epa/carb label. it's that simple.

.

Gee wasnt the Yugo carb certified???

 

[augidog]

apples & oranges, but i guess ANything rather than agree with augi, eh?

yaknow...this is gettin' real old...MBc (the whole friggen' movement for that matter) is starting to stagnate.

mark my words...we'll find a way to self regulate and acheive safety and compliance standards or the gov't is gonna do it for us.

so, y'all just keep treating this motorsport like a kid's game, and we'll soon enjoy the same status as pocketbikes.

what a major dissappointment this group has turned out to be...we were hoping for something better than just a hobby-level mentality after this much time and effort. the HT'ers here have each other, but who's looking out for our brother & sister riders who aren't here and have taken a royal shafting with their ebay-special? i'm trying, apparently the majority of our members couldn't care less.

 

[greenevegiebeast]

It seems to me the same thing was said about the automobile.

Im sorry but you give two men pogosticks and they will race them or see who can jump higher. its the same with the MB comunity. One guy comes up with the "ultimate" setup, and two weeks later some one will say me has one better, its called HUMAN NATURE.
Quit frankly the cynicism That is coming from some members of this web site is rather discourigaging to new members. not to mention the "holer than thou" attitude coming from some members.

Besides i thought that the whole EPA issue was now a taboo now due to the uproar it causes.

As far as self regulating, we are not self regulated as is. The govern ment tells you where you can ride. how big your motor can be. how fast you can go, and what accesories you have to have. how is that self regulaying.

As far asEPA/CARB compliant meaning Quilty, WRONG,they are only "Emisions" regs. that is all. What that means is that a company payed to have the emisions of their product to be tested and certified. That is all. There have been hany shody products that are EPA/CARB compliant. From my point of vue if you realy want to mess up somthing good, get the government involved. OOPS to late they already are.

 

[augidog]

until we define the vehicle, we can't define the relevant laws

exactly...and it's gonna get worse...and some of that will be because "we" have shown no organized inclination to help pave the way.

but, mostly...this is not about epa...it's about the fact that an epa-issue causes an uproar on such a site, this is exactly where such things should be discussed. to get legit "sore" labeling is gonna require more than a chunk of catalyst stuffed inside an untuned pipe hooked to an unbalanced 20:1 2-stroke...so i stand by my assertion that the label=quality.

so, harp all you want about "some" members, chase us around and stifle contemporary & relevant issues...don't lay that atmosphere of intolerance at my doorstep, tho... it's the blatant and public attitude of disregard for the future of the movement that's discouraging progress.

this topic (about an "improvement" to the HT) is a good example of the HT market responding to our proactive consumerism, it's clear to anyone taking a fair view of the situation. it also indicates the double-standard you're using to avoid seeing some of the light.

if someone raises the issue of epa-non-compliance, that's not ok...but if someone brings news of epa-progress, that's ok...now, how the heck did this come about? the catalytic convertor is here because some of us were persistant enuff to make it occur, despite the overall negative community response to our assertions. we forced improvements, you fought us, but the improvements are happening...yet somehow you aren't able or willing to put 2 and 2 together...

the disappointment's all mine, buddy...i have done nothing wrong or detrimental to MB-progress, so i'll shoulder none of this "blame" about the discourse around here.

 

[TwoWalks]

You live in Washington, your car is probably not C.A.R.B. compliant so why would the motor on your bicycle need to be C.A.R.B. compliant?

mmm maybe some of us really care about the enviroment! in anything we own including my big v8 daily driver i go get groceries with - not!!!!!!

Wavy, thank you for the judgment that I do not care about the environment because I asked about C.A.R.B. in your state. I did not realize that you knew what I do for a living and about my life style. I apologize for not caring enough about the government view of clean air and will begin working immediately on improving my life style.

i really don't understand the confusion...after almost 2 years and dozens of engines i came to the conclusion that the one thing that does assure quality and value is that epa/carb label. it's that simple.

Perhaps I can help you with a small portion of the confusion issue. I went to a brand new Motored Bicycle forum and became a member so that I could learn about engines and especially those that are EPA/C.A.R.B. compliant. Being new I asked a couple of newbie questions and basically got no real help, just directed to come back to this forum. I took that advice and decided to follow the same route for learning you previously walked. "after almost 2 years and dozens of engines i came to the conclusion".

I apologize to both Wavy and yourself if it seems I am picking on you because of your environmental stand. Often for new people statements of fact need explanation and if not explained have no value.

Final post moving on...

 

[wavygravy]

agreed !apology accepted! will try to be more diplomatic in the future! motoredbike evolution is a wonderful thing.as long as its in a positve direction & with vision for the future of mb.c in mind always & being good ambasadors for the cause!! im an old geezer around here & just burnt out on the gofast funboyisim at the expence of public appearence & furthuring the movement in a positive light, please forgive me twowalks for being a cinacal old goat! long live mb.c!!!

 

[Scottm]

I have to admit too that I am rather cynical and I apologize as well. I'm tired of being the world's scapegoat. The angry white American man that is responsible for all the world's ills.
I'd enjoy this conversation over a cold beer and in person, which is like what will happen at the rally, if I hadn't had to spend a $1000 on my car last month.
I'm just tired of what "appears to be" personal attacks on someone most of us got our start with. But in responding to "apparant" personal attacks my comments might have come across as personal attacks. We need to quit taking everything so personally.

Finally we don't want the EPA comming down on us and would like less government involvement. But we want EPA standards for vendors to follow, thus we're already under the control of the EPA a government breauacracy meant to control our lives.
We're screwd comming and going. God only know why I'm so cynical.

After Michael Phelps wins 8 gold medals, whats the lead story on the Ft. Worth newspaper? How all our gold comes from poor African kids digging for gold for $2.00 a week. Am I supposed to be proud of a champion or be ashamed to be an American?

 

[BSA]

EPA is not to be discussed in this forum.

BSA