No cogging or with cogging, hmm

Street Ryderz

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I don't think it's even possible to mount SLA batteries on the Night Fur(r)y. As a touring/fishing bike I need to save some space for other things. At the moment I can still just about pick it up (unloaded) with one hand and hang it on my shoulder. So I definitely ought to try to keep the weight down. (I don't need a huge range necessarily)
Haha I won't quite hit 40 with the electric motor alone. Or get a kick in the pants from the 250W/36v (333W/48v?) front hub. I have been enjoying my 60v/500W rear wheel drive electric moped recently though. It tops out at 24mph but nothing stops it. :cool: That has a SLA battery and it weighs 75kg with rear passenger seat that transforms into a cargo rack rated for up to 75kg. The pedal assist can't be switched off so it's a bit hilarious and mildly hazardous to manoeuvre. :ROFLMAO: Lots of laughs but it'll never pass for a bicycle. :X3:
You should check out hobby king,you being in the uk you can get b grade li-po packs cheap and have your 48v and around 20ah for a couple hundred bucks.managed proper you can get 2-3 years out of a set and for sure get 40 km range or more.https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-6s-20000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html two of these and your good! these would be around 12lbs or 5kg the weight of one sla and take up the same amount of space as one sla maybe a slight bit more but still worth looking into!
 


FurryOnTheInside

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You should check out hobby king,you being in the uk you can get b grade li-po packs cheap and have your 48v and around 20ah for a couple hundred bucks.managed proper you can get 2-3 years out of a set and for sure get 40 km range or more.https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-6s-20000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html two of these and your good! these would be around 12lbs or 5kg the weight of one sla and take up the same amount of space as one sla maybe a slight bit more but still worth looking into!
Worth a look but I don't know if 22.2v nominal is enough. The expense of running a pair of these in series seems quite high too, (as it appears to be with 24v packs in series) so I expect I'll end up just buying a 13s for one side at a time. I'll always find something to carry on the other side to balance the weight a bit.

I have to see my "kit" first though! I may need to order a suitable controller from China if the one in the kit doesn't support 48v. I would get an adjustable low voltage cutoff with that so actually the 22.2v nominal packs in series might be possible. But I still think these soft packs are a bit expensive and of course don't come with a crash protective alloy case that's easy to mount..
I've ripped front panniers off the bike when I've fallen asleep riding through the night. :sleep:
I think I should have metal cases that are securely bolted to the fork and rack. :oops:
 

bakaneko

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I don't think it's even possible to mount SLA batteries on the Night Fur(r)y. As a touring/fishing bike I need to save some space for other things.
No, no. They are lithium ion packs using Samsung 25r 3.7V 2,2aH cells, but I just round it to 2aH. They are very, very light. And, I think you would just need 2 of the packs 300 wH (36V 8.8 aH). Here is a USA seller eBay link for the UK just do a "36V 4.4aH battery" search in eBay.uk to check.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-4-4AH-158W-Lithium-Li-ion-Battery-F-Balancing-Scooter-Board-6-5-8-10/163464651481?hash=item260f40a2d9:g:FSYAAOSwKdpcLTkb:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

Damn, the price when up to $50. I bought it between $33 and 45. Lots of budget ebikes have been made with these batteries. The discharge-capacity curve ain't the best compared to expensive modern cells but they are a heck lot better than SLA.
 

FurryOnTheInside

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No, no. They are lithium ion packs using Samsung 25r 3.7V 2,2aH cells, but I just round it to 2aH. They are very, very light. And, I think you would just need 2 of the packs 300 wH (36V 8.8 aH). Here is a USA seller eBay link for the UK just do a "36V 4.4aH battery" search in eBay.uk to check.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36V-4-4AH-158W-Lithium-Li-ion-Battery-F-Balancing-Scooter-Board-6-5-8-10/163464651481?hash=item260f40a2d9:g:FSYAAOSwKdpcLTkb:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

Damn, the price when up to $50. I bought it between $33 and 45. Lots of budget ebikes have been made with these batteries. The discharge-capacity curve ain't the best compared to expensive modern cells but they are a heck lot better than SLA.
I have been looking at the hover board packs which are similar (or just the same) in being 36v and 4.4Ah to use as a parallel pair. I would like to have two chargers and recharge in half the time as a single pack of equivalent Ah.
Unfortunately using 36v wouldn't give me enough top speed. I need to overtake fast cyclists on the narrow cycle path though and get ahead of them before restarting the 2T.
So 21mph is the minimum I require for those short bursts, which means overvolting to 48v or 52v nominal.

Building up 48v from 4x12v packs wired in series then building up to 10-12Ah by adding more packs wired in parallel would work of course. Many packs used together in series and parallel would be nice to spread the weight around and yet keep it close to the centreline of the bike, but I've found that many small battery packs would be expensive. I suppose it's due to the extra BMS and cables included in each pack. Also things get a bit confusing with regards to how you recharge so many packs.

That's how I've come to the (for now) conclusion that I should probably use a parallel pair of 48v packs intended for bicycles.
I can buy one high quality one with (hopefully main brand) 18650 cells and have a box that's easy to make fork mounts for.
Then I can save up for another of the same to wire in parallel with it (after using it for the same amount of hours to try to keep them identical).
It'll be expensive but I can get one side at a time so that should be okay.

. . Now I need to see my kit to make decisions about what I can do with it.
 
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FurryOnTheInside

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I got a delivery this morning. Rudely awoken at 11am just after I got to sleep.
Probably worth it though. :)
View media item 61658
I left it until the evening before unboxing..

I like the wheel. It isn't too different from what the Night Fur(r)y has now. Same width rim (19mm internal), only slightly less deep, it looks reasonable anyway. :)
Spokes are 13g I think, but I didn't get my digital vernier caliper out yet. :geek: I'm happy they don't appear to be 12g. :)
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The hub is not too large at all. Very stealthy. It won't obscure the wonderful view of the beautiful 9" floating rotor. I'm pleased about that, lol. :geek:
Don't know if the bolt holes will be up to the task, but on 1.25" tyres they're not going to see huge amounts of force. (y)
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The controller will not be suitable for overvolting. That's not a problem though. I already have a replacement picked out. :geek:
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The LCD it came with seems cheap and basic but I'll have to see if it'll connect to the upgraded controller when I get that. :unsure:
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The last bit is the thumb throttle. Seems fine. Cheap and probably fragile but it moves smoothly and has a light enough spring I reckon. Don't want a sore thumb. :)
View media item 61663

So now I just need to get photos of all the connectors and post my queries on ES to confirm compatability. I am definitely going to overvolt the stealth motor to 48v nominal to get some power and top speed. My Night Fur(r)y deserves it! :)


a478737f50d1c37d466104f3f3cc4ad0f2dbfe93_00.gif
 

FurryOnTheInside

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Very nice thread. Only thing is why don't you want the heavier 12 gauge spokes?
I saw that you liked my post in the "Frustrated" thread, so I'll assume you know by now and I needn't give a full reply. 12g would require so much tension in the spokes before they become strong that the rim would be crushed and "taco'd" by the force.
I ended up getting a motor wheel built with 13g spokes and I will change them to 14g or 13/14g butted or 13/15/14g triple butted when I upgrade the rim. :)
 

bike4life

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I don't think it's even possible to mount SLA batteries. (Edit: this bit I misunderstood.. SLA wasn't mentioned. carry on.)

Haha I won't quite hit 40 with the electric motor alone. Or get a kick in the pants from the 250W/36v (333W on 48v?) front hub.
I have been enjoying my 60v/500W rear wheel drive electric moped recently though. It tops out at 24mph but nothing stops it. :cool: That has a SLA battery, weighs 75kg with rear passenger seat that transforms into a cargo rack rated for up to 75kg. The pedal assist cannot be switched off so it's a bit hilarious and mildly hazardous to manoeuvre. :ROFLMAO: Lots of laughs but it'll never pass for a bicycle. :X3:
see look. I figure get one of these things. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-sales-directly-ebike-conversion-kit_1907917938.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.13.3acc2b60SM5sQH
 

FurryOnTheInside

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That kind of kit looks great. But I chose the other kind, so what do I have against it?......;)

This "direct drive" type of motor with stator attached directly to the axle will act as a magnetic brake whenever it is switched off and to stop this braking you have to give it a tiny bit of throttle.
Having to keep steadily touching the electric throttle while operating the gas motor twist throttle vigorously doesn't sound easy. :oops:

At top gas/gravity driven speed over 40 mph the magnetic braking on a front wheel and the difficulty of feeding the small current to avoid magnetic braking on a front wheel would be dangerous IMHO and could induce a high speed wobble. :X3:

On a rear wheel it's just robbing the power that the gas motor is making.. And turning the energy into.. Heat and electricity?! :(
So you have to feed it current to match the speed you're already motoring at.
What happens when you spin it faster than it's unloaded top RPM? Will it force current back through the system? Uncontrolled regeneration? Clearly people are riding these up and down hills but I have not read the specific information to ease my concerns about this issue. :confused:

I would only use the geared type of motor in either wheel, and I bought two front wheels so far. They can share a battery for a while since I only have one body. :giggle:
I am considering getting a direct drive rear hub motor with a freewheel threading, but only to use as a mid or rack mounted left hand chain drive motor. That way the rear wheel can spin as fast as it wants with no magnetic braking ever. I have already mounted four sprockets on the left of my wheel, so it would probably be very easy for me to use one this way. :coffee::unsure:


I don't trust that seller, btw. :unsure: Only one review, with enough misspellings that I think whoever wrote it doesn't know the language well or have an English spell checker or autocorrect. :sneaky::alien:
There's certainly a lot of information on ES forum about well known trusted sellers. Particularly of lithium batteries. :coffee::geek:
 

FurryOnTheInside

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You should check out hobby king,you being in the uk you can get b grade li-po packs cheap and have your 48v and around 20ah for a couple hundred bucks.managed proper you can get 2-3 years out of a set and for sure get 40 km range or more.https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-6s-20000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html two of these and your good! these would be around 12lbs or 5kg the weight of one sla and take up the same amount of space as one sla maybe a slight bit more but still worth looking into!
You were right actually. It was well worth checking out the Hobby King packs made for remote control devices, "drones" and r/c cars and helicopters etc. The 44,4v nominal that you get when running four of their 11.1v in series is not less real world voltage than a 48v Li-ion battery on most Ebikes, because of the high "C rating" these packs don't suffer from voltage sag when heavily loaded. On my little "250w" overvolted and 333w continuous the peak watt usage would be only barely into the figures where the high Court rating makes a big difference. On the popular 1-3kw motors that are popular in the USA the lithium polymer packs have significant advantages.
The rate of voltage drop as you use up the usable voltage of the battery is different too. The Li-poly has a higher voltage when it is "empty" so actually it's average voltage is about the same as the Li-ion which begins with a higher voltage and ends with lower.

But then there are some other considerations. If you are a beginner and you read the posts about living with these batteries it does come across that everyone is getting through multiple chargers and power supplies before they find one that lasts a while, but not forever. There seems to be no charging system that is guaranteed to work for everyone all the time. Even if you make a list of the choices that other builders finally settled on, there's someone else saying that didn't work for them. There's no consistency, no consensus to follow so you can just buy once and have reliability.
They recharge quickly but..
The batteries and chargers and power supplies should be placed in a fireplace during the charge process and must be monitored.
You have to carry a pair of server power supplies and a very large charger and the battery medic etc if you are going on a road trip. Not like the compact little chargers used for the common Li-ion "ebike" batteries.
So for me, for touring and fishing expeditions, I don't think that Li-poly is a practicable option. I need to be able to carry a small charger or two in my panniers, with a campsite electric hook up (or whatever you call them there, RV mains plug and cable), and charge my battery inside my highly flammable tent whole I sleep or on my gasoline loaded bicycle.

But I'm glad I had a look at these. They do look nice and compact and good for high power "sport" ebiking near to home.
 
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