the MB-Legal Future? Predictions and Wild Guesses.

augidog

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there's been tons of talk lately about some pretty signifcant things, epa and fair-trade...quality and the disparities between the various options of drivetrains.

some important stuff...to the MB'er, surely. but also important to the different agencies I'm sure are watching us.

"they're gonna shut us down"..."don't let so much info go public"...examples of concerns raised when we talk about stuff.

well, it's my opinion that as our numbers grow, there won't be one definitive thing we can do or NOT do to change whatever's going to happen

I feel that we need to keep it out in the open.

A discussion elsewhere got pretty heated when epa-stuff became a focus. i apologise for my heated part in it but not for voicing my strong views about fair-trade, but as a result i'm willing to concede that legitimate epa/carb-compliance for "SORE's" should be an accepted minimum for our vehicles. note i said legitimate...and if it IS legit the proof should remain on the engine as originally shipped. matter of fact, yes this was a private dig at someone who has actually made this issue so bad because there is info being removed from engines before the end-user gets them. if you make a claim, then don't remove the labeling that backs you up. that's just wrong to let folks go on with seemingly proper assumptions because you're hiding "something else" about the engine. it makes you responsible for the ensuing discourse, which was mostly based on that lack of available info. and...that "missing" label could be the difference between your customer getting in trouble or not.

enough...you'll accept my new (and admittedly more realistic) position or you won't. it was conjected that we're asking for too much attention, i think we're gettin' that attention anyways.

so now i'd like to talk about "where is all this really going?"

we have many many differnt kinds of bikes and riders within our community, and many many more who never get on the internet but are still out there having some influence on how things go for us.

so...the numbers are huge, noone's going to be able to keep this under the radar, something is going to happen with the law sooner or later, it could be as gentle as some stricter restrictions on the engines we can use or it can be as bad as complete "revenoor" legislation that makes us a motor-vehicle in every legal sense of the word...

from a laws & legislation viewpoint: assuming that this movement is so large that we are beyond self-regulation and the ability to choose our destiny...what do you think will happen?
 
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astring

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AZ seems to have settled it to a degree (though the law stills needs some tweeking).
 

augidog

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i love that AZ is trying, but it's also clear the current situation there is "uncomfortable" for us and them...something will change...where do you think those "tweaks" should, or could, go? how do we, can we, influence it?

from bad to good scenarios, this topic's about "creative interpretation" and wild guesses...anyone?
 
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Bigwheel

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If they outlaw motorized bicycles, then only outlaws will ride motorized bikes.
 
M

MotorbikeMike

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Legal engines, legal operations?

Hi, well, lets see....... Origionally the US did not care about small engines, then in 05 they threatend all the legal importers....then in early 06 the smugglers sprung up like a crop of weeds in a vacant lot.......still the Legal guys stood tight and did not import.....Now supposedly an EPA legal kit exsists on the ChinaFire/HappyTime format. This is the "New" cat-equipped 66 or 67 cc CF engine. I will test this engine myself, somehow.

Soooo the 4-stroke comes along, low quantities, and some noisy flakey gearboxes well that is progress eh? The Government continues business as normal and has apparently NO interest in the 4-stroke under 50cc market.

Then, ON this site, over 14 pages of self-promotion and hype, (in ONE topic alone!!!), talking about the "Worlds Greatest engine and transmission, this invention will make sliced bread obsolete, Made in USA, and raise the flag and we will all salute together"!

HUH? a Rack-mount when there were already excellent Racks availble, and the population was riding frame mounts......Go Figure?

Soo, amoung the riding populace complaints about gearboxes, and clutches abound, and here, and other boards, we begin to study what is availble.

HS with JL gearbox means instant (or almost so) failure on Stage 1 The Grube shage 1 loses it's "engager" mechanism at the gate tho that could be welded solid.

What is next? I don't yet know. Upon asking the known world for FACTORY specs for the 4-stroke under 50cc engines we found Honda, H/S but no T I T A N. The little Robin-Subaro is also well known but too small for most people to be interested in.

Stay tuned, keep aware, keep in touch, and we shall see what is next?

Mike
 

astring

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i love that AZ is trying, but it's also clear the current situation there is "uncomfortable" for us and them...something will change...where do you think those "tweaks" should, or could, go? how do we, can we, influence it?

from bad to good scenarios, this topic's about "creative interpretation" and wild guesses...anyone?

they have to take away the possibility of those huge fines for no regs, no ins and no license.
 

SimpleSimon

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they have to take away the possibility of those huge fines for no regs, no ins and no license.
Well, would that that were true.

Fact is, they don't have to do any such thing. Government is about control, and mechanisms of control are thoroughly entrenched in society - growing ever more entrenched with each passing day. Mandatory registration, mandatory licensing, mandatory "minimum" equipment for your "safety", mandatory insurance, etcetera are all backed up by force - which is what gov't really is. Coercive force, pure and simple. Sure, we may agree with most of it, and happily cooperate in our own control - if we didn't, society could not function at all - but it is still control by force.

No government of which I am aware, in all of human history, ever relaxed control of the people except when they were forced to by a massive resistance to the coercion. So, what you have to ask yourself is - is it worth the risks? Arrests, fines, imprisonment, forfeiture of property, even death should you continue to resist - all are out there as real risks for any behavior construed as criminal.

So, should we debate and attempt to reach a consensus on what is reasonable as a level of control? Of course we should - it is much easier to inflence governmental actions before the controls are imposed than after they are codified and enforced.

As I see it, first we need a proper definition of what constitutes a pedalcycle - be it one, two, three, four, or however many wheels/riders. Second, we need a reasonable standard as to what would constitute acceptable levels of power assistance for such conveyances. Third, we need reasonable rules regarding minimum necessary equipment - lights/horns/etc. Fourth, we need minimum standards on what constitutes safety equipment for your person as a rider - helmets? Fifth, we need to set reasonable standards for maximum speed capabilities - lots of states use 20 mph, which isn't really reasonable, given that full size automobiles are allowed to travel at 35 mph on most city streets Sixth, what things should be expressly forbidden (e.g - motorized handtruck pushers, maybe)? Seventh - what minimum level of competence is needed to be considered safe to ride?

Keep in mind, in the abnsence of hard and fast rules regarding some specific types of patently unsafe modifications/behaviors, it leaves a large gray are. Authority must be served - if the rules aren't specific enough, then anything might be a violation.

Any of the enumerated points above (a by no means comprehensive list) will generate debate, and no matter how loose the rules are set, some are going to break them. So, what are reasonable penalty levels? With what level of force may those violations be addressed?

Lots to think about.
 
L

Large Filipino

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I honestly think as far as Motoredbikes go were gonna remain the same and this is why.
Gas won't go down any time soon. Out of those that want to save gas and still get around without much hassle in time or whatever I think more than 50% of those guys will buy a motorcycle.
Why do I say this?
There's a Motorcycle safety class down my street held daily it seems. It used to be I saw bikes there on the parking lot riding around the cones only once or twice a week.
It's been EVERY DAY I see them there now. And classes of over 30 bikes. I'll try to take a pic next time I see them. I don't ride on the weekends for I got my host home guy. But maybe on Monday I'll snap a few pics.
Then out of the pie another 40% will choose a scooter. It's slower but you can still stay with traffic but you cannot go on the highway so that's a problem. But it's managable so there you are. And under 50cc your good to go.
Then there's the remaining 10% which is us guys.
Out of those 10% I would say 80% of those that choose a motoredbike would try to commute with it but find because the bike is too slow it can get down right DANGEROUS because cars don't care about little old us and they are not fully trained on the importance of regular maintenance so they will have a bad experience and look at scooters and Motorcycles.
Those 80% are usually the ones you find lurking here. Those are the ones that would have one or two pictures of their rides in the picture gallery but never post an introduction. Those guys like their rides but it's in no way their primary transportation.
They are cool though,don't get me wrong,but those guys you won't see riding every day.
Then the other 20% are all the wonderful people here that posts mass quantities of joy in our wonderful forum. We are the TRUE DIEHARD MOTORED BIKE RIDERS!!
And were hardly in the top one percentile when it comes to total number of people that need to travel daily.
Our revolution is happening. But the players are the scooters and Motorcycles.
Our rides right now are just plain too impractical to the eyes of the average Joe.
They don't know anything,yo. And sometimes that's okay.
They don't know that with proper upkeep our bikes ARE practical and they get great gas mileage.
Compliance is very important. Yes. I completely agree here. But again honestly I don't think it would come to that when it comes to the law.
I ride like I am on a BICYCLE and for that I don't get bothered.
How you ride determines our future. We get enough guys tearing up the roads keeping up with cars on a bicycle not designed for this type of treatment then were gonna get the heat. But if you stay cool,so would generally the cops too.
Here's just one you tube video of the many video's of what traffic is like in other countries.
This is how bad things have to get for us before we will see the right legislation come around for all of us.
And I don't see a mess like this happening to us any time soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yJtuJjbB1I

So how many motoredbikes do you see?
 
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arceeguy

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........Our revolution is happening. But the players are the scooters and Motorcycles.....

While motorcycle and scooter sales/usage are skyrocketing, it won't take very long for the government to start regulating them out of existence. Motorcycles and scooters still have rather crude emission control standards when compared to passenger cars. Once they represent a significant amount of traffic, they will tighten up emission regulations making them more expensive to purchase and more complicated to maintain. Motored bikes may suffer the same future if they become popular enough.

Todays lawn mowers and other power equipment run hotter and probably don't last as long because of strict emission standards. Manufacturers are forced to jet their carbs lean to pass emissions, and they provide virtually no adjustments so we can't even adjust the carbs to get them to run properly. Hard starting and rough running seem to be the norm for a lot of new power equipment.

Two stroke equipment has suffered the most, since they get their lubrication from the fuel/oil mix. Being a tad lean with 50:1 fuel/oil ratio means short engine life and/or seizure. I guess I should be happy that they still make 2 stroke trimmers, blowers, and saws. (at least for now)
 

Zev0

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Being a tad lean with 50:1 fuel/oil ratio means short engine life and/or seizure. I guess I should be happy that they still make 2 stroke trimmers, blowers, and saws. (at least for now)

Huh? The Tanaka 2-Stroke 33cc has been known to run 10s of 1000s of miles at that very LEAN mixture.
 
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