Tucson Police Department Harassment

[cactusamigo]

A note to those who justify the lack of speed limit signs by the lack of homicide prohibition signs: Speed limits vary according to the type of road/highway, residential area, etc. Therefore, speed limit posting is necessary. Speed limit signs would not be necessary if there were only one speed limit for every road and highway in the state. The comparison is absurd.

 

[papa]

cactusamigo,

1.) Ignorance is NO excuse in the eyes of the law. If you buy, build or borrow a motorbike and ride it on public asphalt anywhere in the United States, YOU, the driver/rider are required to know the law as it applies to you, your vehicle, and the surrounding environment. Doesn't matter if it's a semi hauling HAZMAT, or a bicycle. If you saddle-up ignorantly and get caught, it's rightfully your butt that needs legally booted.... posted signs or not. If you 'knowingly' rode faster than Arizona's 20 MPH limit, then you are guilty of 'willful' wrong doing.

So with or without posted signs, it should be a no-brainer; You can ride up to, but NOT over 20 MPH on any Arizona street that allows 20 MPH speeds or faster (excluding interstate freeways). If the posted speed is BELOW 20 MPH, then you, by law, cannot exceed the posted speed.

2.) If you don't have a speedometer and claim, "I don't know how fast I was going", you just admitted wrong doing via ignorance. Even though (I'm assuming here) you are apparently not required to have a speedometer, a judge will likely tell you that if wish to avoid further confrontations, you'd be wise to start using one... because obviously, you are ill-equipt to accurately determine your speed.

 

[toolmanaz68]

In reply to the comment of "papa"

As to your smart a** remark about "ignorance is no excuse for the law", I and the others in the TPD harrassment thing had done what would be considered our due dilligence when we researched through DMV the requirements for operating a MB.
When the department that issues the operators licenses clearly inform you that you do not need an operators license, well that should be pretty clear and convincing info.
When that department fails to further advise you that they have no idea what they are talking about when it come to license law, then ignorance of the law in the case of the individual is no longer a valid argument.
So before you are prepared to condemn, and run your mouth, be aware of the true facts of the matter.

 

[cactusamigo]

papa - Basically, there is no argument in regard to the point that you make about ignorance of the law is no excuse. The problem is with the way the law is written, and the way in which it is enforced by at least one jurisdiction. One cannot get a straight answer from the various state or local agencies involved in these matters.

Motor vehicles are required by law to have speedometers so the operators can comply with speed limit requirements. A speed limit is imposed on motorized bikes, but there is no equipment requirement for a speedometer. Reflectors are a safety requirement. One would think that a speedometer would also be a safety requirement. I believe someone slept at the switch on this one.

You make a big issue of the state imposed speed limit on motorized bikes, but that is not the issue being contested, since at least one operator who had his bike impounded WAS NOT cited for excessive speed. Why not, since that is the reason the officer stopped the individual? The citations issued were for non-compliant vehicle operation violations incidental to speeding. Without proof of speeding, there is no basis for the citations.

Since the operator was not cited for speeding, the motorized bike speed limit issue will not come before the court. Please don't try to speak for the judge, especially since speeding will not be an issue before the court.

The most scary issue, which you don't address, is the manner in which three individuals had their personal property confiscated by police action, rather than by an order of the court. It will be interesting to hear how a police officer justifes to a judge confiscating someone's property for speeding, or speeding related violations, when the person was not charged with speeding.

The bikes were impounded, not seized for evidence. If they were seized for evidence, they would be returned to the owner after the case was resolved, without penalty to the owner. One individual did recover his bike by paying the impound and storage fees.

 

[Stan4d]

However, if you contact TOOLMANAZ68, he may be able to give you the details of his citations.

As to your smart a** remark about "ignorance is no excuse for the law", I and the others in the TPD harrassment thing had done what would be considered our due dilligence when we researched through DMV the requirements for operating a MB.
When the department that issues the operators licenses clearly inform you that you do not need an operators license, well that should be pretty clear and convincing info.
When that department fails to further advise you that they have no idea what they are talking about when it come to license law, then ignorance of the law in the case of the individual is no longer a valid argument.
So before you are prepared to condemn, and run your mouth, be aware of the true facts of the matter.

Since I was directed to you toolmanaz, would it be possible to scan the citations (after blocking out personal info) so that we can see exactly what you were cited for?

 

[Stan4d]

The city prosecutor, after reading the charges at the arraignment said, " Were you on a motorized bicycle? Dude you have to plead not guilty and fight this."
So, I did, and I am. I will keep you all advised as the proceedings move along.

Did it occur to you to ask the prosecutor why he was following through with the court action and advising you to fight the charges?
That makes no sense. If he agreed with you, he has it in his power not to prosecute you.

 

[srdavo]

The issue with exceeding 20 mph on a motorized bike in AZ is NOT that you'll get a speeding ticket (unless you're over the posted speed limit also,) but that you'll be charged with driving a motorized vehicle (moped) without registration or insurance.

as a long-time AZ rider (4yrs-20k+ miles),,,
I have tried to keep aware of legalities regarding MB's

state law clearly says less than 20mph, and that is easily broken by coasting

I believe the problems in Tucson are because there are so many bikes there
(not all, or even most of them are being ridden responsibly), that they drew bad attention to the cause

I have been ticketed under a local by-law forbidding go-peds, mini-bikes, etc..., and beat the ticket in court by proving I fell under the state's definition of a MB
after all this time, and being seen so much (I take my grandkids to/from school every day), I am well known and don't get hassled anymore

I even went the pro-active route, and befriended the mayor and a councilman here (if anyone tries to make a local law against MB's, they know at least one person who is a legal/responsible rider)
btw...they both really dig the girls and their trailer

please check out the pdf attached from tucson's web site (dated Sept 2006)

http://dot.tucsonaz.gov/bicycle/pdfs/moto_bikes.pdf

Thanks, Lou & Bill, for your input.

What is a motorized bicycle?
Arizona State law, Title 28, defines motorized electric or gas powered bicycles or tricycles as a bicycle or tricycle that is
equipped with a helper motor that has a maximum piston displacement of 48 cubic centimeters or less, or an electric motor of
less than 750 watts (1 hp), that may also be self-propelled and that is operated at speeds of less than twenty miles per hour.
If you exceed 20 mph you are no longer covered under this exemption - this means you will be treated as a moped and
subject to license, registration, insurance and other operational conditions and will be subject to a citation(s) by the
Police Department and your vehicle could be towed under the mandatory impound law.
----------------------------------
Remember - it is your responsibility to know your vehicle and skills, to obey traffic laws and to be courteous in sharing
the roadways with other vehicles and pedestrians. You should also consider using additional equipment such as a
speedometer and the brightest possible nighttime lighting to ensure your visibility and safety and to assist you in
compliance with this law.

The laws seem pretty clear.


read this.... it used to be worse. http://www.spookytoothcycles.com/spooky-in-the-press/news-archive
Contact Roland at spookytooth--- I bet he can help (advise) you.

I am just concerned that this attention you are seeking may have negative affects in Tucson.

 

[skrufryder]

It seems everyone has over looked the fact that the two people envolved didnt have a valid drivers liscense and were oprating the MB's on a public roadway meaning the two have to obey all rules of the road. Haveing a drivers liscense is reqired by the state of AZ to operate any vehicle on a public roadway. Faliure to provide one results in manditory inpondment, if found operating a vehicle with a suspened or revoked liscense results in forfiture of vehicle and becomes property of the state of AZ. The inpound fee's are the same for any vehicle in pima county..... The two people are lucky if the only get the 2 days minimun in jail for offenders operating vehicle with suspended liscense do to a DUI

 

[skrufryder]

The one thing that really grinds my gears is people who loose there liscense due to DUI or dont pay child support and think they can beat the system and get MB's. Instead of riding the bus....... Hey if your gona drink and drive and get cought good you cant drive you dont want to pay child support..... then dont drive until you can if you can pay for gas/insurance and up keep on an auto take care of your kids first. sorry if I upset anyone

 

[srdavo]

Licensing is not an issue here..... unless you exceed 19 mph.

http://dot.tucsonaz.gov/bicycle/pdfs/moto_bikes.pdf

No vehicle title, registration, insurance, emissions or driver license required as long as the motorized bicycle operates in
compliance with the above definition (operated at less than 20 mph).

DUI & Child Support is not the topic here.