Looking to build a bike for the backcountry

[brendan714]

I'm looking to build something that I can go on backcountry / offroad trails that I can easily store at home and transport with my bike rack. So a motorized bicycle comes to mind.

I know that I need a great bike to start with, so let's assume I have that.

I'm looking for something that can handle some bumpy / muddy roads and hills. I'm definitely looking for torque over speed.

My question - is a cheap 2 stroke China motor good enough if I upgrade parts? Or is the extra dough for a 4 stroke a no-brainer?

Is the 4 stroke more reliable (important if I'm in the backcountry)? Does it require less maintenance? Can it get up hills in a 4 stroke as easily as a similar cc 2 stroke? Would I still need to upgrade a bunch of parts on the 4 stroke?

Being from Canada (where the exchange rate, shipping and duty from anywhere the USA kills me), the only reasonable 4 stroke engine I found was here: http://www.motorizedbicycle.ca/bicy...lt-drive-complete-gas-powered-engine-kit.html

So the standard junk 66cc 2 stroke kits run $200 - $220 here in Canada, and the 49cc 4 stroke kit runs $375. I wouldn't really want to spend a whole lot more than the $375 plus maybe some minor upgrades (bolts, etc).

Thanks a bunch for any help!

 

[bakaneko]

i dont do any off road or dirt riding but i have a few thoughts for you and hopefully get some input from guys that go on the trails.

- from my understanding, a standard mountain bike with the smaller space in-frame will be difficult or not possible to fit the tall HS-142F. even with all the plastics remove, it still might be difficult. and the bike design with the rear shock definitely wont fit either the 2-stroke or HS-142F
- i find the HS-142F infinitely more reliable and maintenance free than the 2-stroke generic motors. in 2.5k+ miles, it still starts in 2 pulls from a cold start and pulls me to maximum speed ~33 mph. i only replace the clutch now and then and grease the chain
- the torque will come with gearing (gear reduction box, rear sprocket) but i did find the 2-stroke had a bit more bite on take off due to the differences in their clutch designs. but, i think if you get the premium 4-stroke clutch over the flimsy stock clutch you might have better pick-up. the premium clutch is very different from the stock design
- for me, I would prefer a 4-stroke on mountain trails cuz i dont have to monkey around with the clutch lever. a 4-stroke is automatic and i think in varying situations that you find yourself on trails you want to have instant response
- you dont have to upgrade any parts on a 4-stroke. the stock muffler and carb is fine. you might want to upgrade the clutch but that is a small change

also, have you thought about electric but that is pricey...

 

[brendan714]

i dont do any off road or dirt riding but i have a few thoughts for you and hopefully get some input from guys that go on the trails.

- from my understanding, a standard mountain bike with the smaller space in-frame will be difficult or not possible to fit the tall HS-142F. even with all the plastics remove, it still might be difficult. and the bike design with the rear shock definitely wont fit either the 2-stroke or HS-142F
- i find the HS-142F infinitely more reliable and maintenance free than the 2-stroke generic motors. in 2.5k+ miles, it still starts in 2 pulls from a cold start and pulls me to maximum speed ~33 mph. i only replace the clutch now and then and grease the chain
- the torque will come with gearing (gear reduction box, rear sprocket) but i did find the 2-stroke had a bit more bite on take off due to the differences in their clutch designs. but, i think if you get the premium 4-stroke clutch over the flimsy stock clutch you might have better pick-up. the premium clutch is very different from the stock design
- for me, I would prefer a 4-stroke on mountain trails cuz i dont have to monkey around with the clutch lever. a 4-stroke is automatic and i think in varying situations that you find yourself on trails you want to have instant response
- you dont have to upgrade any parts on a 4-stroke. the stock muffler and carb is fine. you might want to upgrade the clutch but that is a small change

also, have you thought about electric but that is pricey...

Thanks a bunch for the response!
Some great things to think about.
I have had problems finding a modern mountain bike that would fit a 4 stroke motor. I'm leaning towards older style bikes with front suspension only and roomy frames.

And yes, I've thought electric, which would be awesome, but I haven't found anything cheaper than $1,500 - $2,000 near where I live.... which is too much to invest at this point.

 

[butre]

4 stroke is the way to go for off-road. more reliable and doesn't scare the deer as bad.

look into electric hub motors to. last I checked conversion kits were like $400

 

[brendan714]

Thanks. I looked into some electric motors. There are definitely some cheap kits out there, but part of the problem is that the batteries are several hundred bucks too, with questionable range.
And I hope I don't sound like a hypocrite but I think I trust a Chinese gas motor over Chinese batteries and electrical parts...

Thing is, the legality of electric motors would mean I could ride an electric bike in way more places than a gas powered bike.
There are definitely some pros and cons. I think I'm leaning 4 stroke gas for a first build. I'll see if I get good use out of it.

 

[gary55]

I'm looking to build something that I can go on backcountry / offroad trails that I can easily store at home and transport with my bike rack. So a motorized bicycle comes to mind.

I know that I need a great bike to start with, so let's assume I have that.

I'm looking for something that can handle some bumpy / muddy roads and hills. I'm definitely looking for torque over speed.

My question - is a cheap 2 stroke China motor good enough if I upgrade parts? Or is the extra dough for a 4 stroke a no-brainer?

Is the 4 stroke more reliable (important if I'm in the backcountry)? Does it require less maintenance? Can it get up hills in a 4 stroke as easily as a similar cc 2 stroke? Would I still need to upgrade a bunch of parts on the 4 stroke?

Being from Canada (where the exchange rate, shipping and duty from anywhere the USA kills me), the only reasonable 4 stroke engine I found was here: http://www.motorizedbicycle.ca/bicy...lt-drive-complete-gas-powered-engine-kit.html

So the standard junk 66cc 2 stroke kits run $200 - $220 here in Canada, and the 49cc 4 stroke kit runs $375. I wouldn't really want to spend a whole lot more than the $375 plus maybe some minor upgrades (bolts, etc).

Thanks a bunch for any help!

Where are you at in Canada?

 

[brendan714]

Where are you at in Canada?

Calgary, AB

 

[gary55]

Calgary, AB

The reason I asked is their are a couple of good builders on the forum up there, but they are a long ways from you. Still they may have some good input as where to buy parts. StreetRyderz is in Ontario and SteveBest in Nova Scotia.

If going 4 stroke I don't think my choice for back country travel would be the 49cc 4 stroke. I would opt for the 79cc 4 stroke. These can be souped up for considerable more power and be better suited for the steeper terrain in your neck of the world. When it comes to any real climbing the 49cc's are just gutless even with gearing and the improved clutch.

All my riding is on the roads, but I'm sure their will be some offroaders chiming in with some good advice. The only reason I shoot down the 49cc 4 stroke is I have one that I like a dumb ass bought form someone instead of building it myself. I had to completely dis and re assemble the whole bike to get it working right. It is a 5speed shifter bike and my 2 stroke shifters run circles around it both in climbing and top speed. My single speed 2 stroke out climbs it.

 

[bakaneko]

also, if it is technically illegal to ride the bike on streets around your parts and you are only using the bike for trails and country, IMO I would not spend a lot of money on it. 2-strokes are fine if you are patient and have moderate technical skills to do maintenance and repairs. and, they fit on more bikes.

I still think the 4-strokes are fine for trails with gearing and a better clutch (can upgrade eventually) but that is only if I can also use it on the roads too. if you are gonna just ride it on the trails and bash the hell out of it, maybe just buy a cheap craiglist bike and a china 2-stroke kit and ride it until you break the bike.

gary55 is right the bite on the 2-strokes are stronger due to the clutch design. just trade offs : price, reliability, maintenance, torque. here are some guys ripping it on trails with 2-strokes; there are 4-strokes videos too but hard to find since it brings up dirt bikes. note, the guy gets a bloody knee at excessive speeds on trails...

 

[brendan714]

Thanks very much for the input.

I'm definitely not the average person shopping for a motorized bike. I'm not looking for speed, I'm not expecting to be able to rip up hills or mountains (though that would be nice), and I'm not really wanting to fly around on rough roads until my bike dies (or me, lol).

I'm looking for something better than pedalling my mountain bike.
Call me crazy, but I like hiking up mountains. A lot of the time to get to the base of the mountain I bike or walk. To scoot up with a motor to the base of the mountain, lock it up, then start hiking up the real steep parts is just fine with me, and is sort of my expected use at this point.

I like how cheap 2 strokes are, I just have a bad thought of being way off from the car and having something blow. I know, that can happen with any motor. But it sounds like a cheap 4 stroke is more reliable than a cheap 2 stroke. I think I'm willing to pay a little more for reliability.

An electric bike is probably what I should get, but I can't seem to find kits and batteries for any lower than about $1,000 together without cheaping out with Chinese batteries, etc.