OPTIMIZE- Tips for the first time builder...and more.

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Guest, Apr 12, 2007.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I've been reading a lot around these forums about making these engines faster, or "higher performance". Sometimes "high performance" is something other than "racing application" or "speedy".
    These engines were originally made to haul around people for a tiny sip of fuel, low operating costs, and ease of MAINTENANCE....kinda like the old V-Dub beetle. Or the early Honda step through. Or the model T.

    Top performance for these engines then should be defined as great fuel mileage, ease of operation and low overall cost.

    Some are treating these engines like they should do something other than putt around on a litre of fuel all day and get you where you are going with a minimum of drama.

    You aren't going to make one of these engines haul you down the coast @ 40+ MPH or win any stop light drags with that blue haired lady in the Volvo. (although, you may)

    You aren't going to find any magic fuel or "performance" add-on that is going to do anything you can't do for pretty much free with the exception being your time. Coleman fuel? nah...super duper spark plug thingy? nah....NOS or turbos? Are you serious? You aren't really serious, are you?

    100+ MPG? Yes. Easy running, and easy maintenance? Yes. Lots of tinkering and learning to do maintenence and repairs? Yes, if you want to keep riding it. Fun? Of course, why else would you want to own one?

    Buy a good plug, and a good replacement sparkplug wire cap from Pep Boys or other favorite large auto outlet.
    Never remove a sparkplug from a hot engine, you may remove the threads from the head as well.
    Here's a list of replacement plugs- do it today!

    NGK B6HS & B5HS
    Champion L86C
    Champion CJ7Y low profile
    Autolite 4093 or 425
    ND W2OFS_U
    Bosch W9EO

    (thanks srdavo!)

    Use a GOOD oil- Penzoil for AIR COOLED ENGINES, Yamaha semi synthetic, or fully synthetic Yamalube, or nearly any full synthetic (Poulan @ Wal-Mart). I have used all of these. The Penzoil is very inexpensive and we use it in the big 2 stroke ultralight aircraft for years @ 50/1 mix.

    Mix your fuel/oil mixture @ 32-36/1 after break-in.

    Buy some good gasket paper (really cheap) and make a couple intake gaskets, and install one, even if you think yours is fine. You can make gaskets really easily by drawing the new gasket by using the old gasket as a pattern, and no, it doesn't have to be PERFECT. Use an exacto knife and take your time, finish the rough stuff with some 220 sandpaper. Some of you (me) old-timers will use the "good old ball peen hammer method" to make the gaskets. Make exhaust gaskets with some fiberglass "decking cloth", about the same as the stuff you buy in the automotive section @ Wal-Mart for body work, in fact that stuff works pretty good too. Just no socks please.... (I can give more detailed directions for making these, just PM me.)

    Make sure your carb is set right and that means check where the needle clip is, start at the third from the bottom in most cases. One slot lower near sea level. Experiment and find the best one for you. I have mine set at the second from the bottom, so it just depends on your carb and your elevation. (I'm @ 1000' here) Don't attempt to find the right settings until you are running 32-36/1 mix after break-in.

    Clean out your tank before you mount it...at least look in there and see if it's full of rust or crud. You can use a shop vac ONLY IF THERE HAS NEVER BEEN ONE DROP OF FUEL...otherwise you'll blow your shop vac to smithereens.

    While your in a cleaning mood, pop off the mag side cover and clean all the metal shavings out of there with some spray can brake cleaner and compressed air. Check the area around the sprocket too- full of metal dust!

    To save yourself a lot of hassle, buy a length of M6X1.00 pitch threaded rod and REPLACE ALL THE STUDS. Or make them outta bolts like I did. Those would be the intake, exhaust and also the four mounting studs. The originals are made of "anti-metal" and will strip at the first inopportune moment.

    Secure all wires with zip ties or electricians tape so none are pulling at the ends or connections. Seal up any ends/connections that are in doubt with liquid electricians tape...READ THE DIRECTIONS ON THE CAN!

    Grease your gears with some wheel bearing grease or lithium grease before you ever fire the engine up, then again after about 50 miles. USE ONLY A TINY AMOUNT OR YOU'LL BE CLEANING THE CLUTCH SOON. (a dab about the size of a pencil eraser is PLENTY. Clean them first with some brake cleaner, or carb cleaner, then lube.
    Don't spray brake or carb cleaner in your eyes, you won't be doing anything else on the bike for awhile afterwards, if ever.

    While you are greasing stuff remove, clean and grease all your wheel bearings, or YOU WILL BE SORRY. Bicycles are not really made to haul a 200+ pound guy over the road and all the bumps/potholes/ect @ 25-35 mph. The bearings take a massive beating. Use red grease because it starts to turn black when it needs servicing.

    Make sure your chain is aligned and lubed. Same goes for the pulley/tensioner. Don't make the chain TOO TIGHT.

    When you get a chance, take the chain to a bike shop/moped shop/motorcycle shop or any place that sells drive chain, and buy a replacement- that'sdax says it's an 081 but a 415# will work too. D.I.D. has them and so do a lot of places, look around for the best price, but replace it as soon as possible....the chains that come with these are really not the best quality, and that's being nice. Always clip on your masterlink so the opened end faces toward the rear when it's at the top of the chain run and going forward.

    Zip tie your spokes where they cross while you are installing your sprocket.

    Balance your wheels- I used solder wrapped around the spokes at the rim.

    Don't try to use your clutch to take off.

    Use loctite on every bolt you put a wrench on, and don't OVERTIGHTEN the head bolts, or any bolt that goes into aluminum. 25-28 ft/lbs. is enough, and that goes for the spark plug too! While we're on the subject, you do use anti-seize compound on the plug threads, don't you? Never remove a sparkplug from a hot engine, you may remove the threads from the head as well.

    Make sure your brakes are up to par. Stuff hurts more @ 35MPH than it does @ 10MPH, especially if it stops you before your brakes do.

    Don't ride when buzzed, on anything, even too much caffine... and especially not the grain or grape!
    (had to add that for a modicum of "PCness").

    Wear a helmet if you like the way stuff works now.

    Ride defensively, because the only drivers that will see you are the ones you DON'T want to see you- aka "da fuzz".

  2. srdavo

    srdavo Active Member

    IMHO, you touched all the bases here. I agree with almost everything you said.
    almost =Setting the carb. I have better, all around performance with the needle clip set in the 3rd position from the bottom. This works for me here in S.E. Kansas. elevation 500-1000 feet

    Just for fun: :D
    One question----> Did I optimize Rusty's Livefast engine when I bored the jet on the carb? Remember....he screamed like a hotsaw at the lumberjack games....shook loose all kinds of stuff! (still putting him back together... hahaha....I needed better engine mounts anyway)
    I read somewhere that redline on these chinese beauties was 5800 rpms. (prolly a chinese disclaimer) A couple years ago, I was clocked at 33mph with this same 48cc .The old spitfire site had a speed/rpm calculator. With my specific wheel size & sprocket , that worked out to a little over 7000 rpms. My new jet was kicking more rpms than that.
    okay...honestly, I choose dependability over speed anytime. But....Man, that was fun!!!
  3. azvinnie

    azvinnie Guest

    this should be a list for newbies to follow before asking any Q's here on the forum, nice layout on all subjects, and a good guide to follow..........good work joe
  4. jeffspeeder

    jeffspeeder Guest

    joe that was wonderful you just taught me some tips on how to take better care of my bike. ill make shure i do that stuff often. :cool:
  5. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    what 'vinnie said. you've earned yerself a "sticky"...nice post, 'joe 8)

    must say, tho, i think srdavo's got it right about 2nd slot down for most common mixture setting.
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks guys.
    Second slot it is...maybe the the third at sea level, and first at 5000'?

    I'll edit that.
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    srdavo- you optimized the top end performance, and you can always dial in a bit less throttle unless you need a fast get-away. :) It's nice to know it's there though, isn't it?
  8. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    lots of good stuff ... nice post dude !!!
  9. jeffspeeder

    jeffspeeder Guest

    well the anwser to my last topic post was here why dont i pay attention.lol :shock:
  10. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    seems like you ARE starting to !!!
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
  11. quay1962

    quay1962 Guest

    Re: OPTIMIZE FOR YOUR APPLICATION- set-up, tips, updated AGA

    There's one more point I should put out there Joe and that is other cars in a 2 lane road don't always see you "the cyclist"
    Back in 1979, I was riding my puch 2 stroke moped in Palo Alto california, when a car hit and ran me into a parked truck parked on the side of the road! I was cruisin at 35 miles an hour seen the truck up ahead turned my right side into the tail gate and flipped into on comming traffic. The guy ran and was never caught.
    The moral of the story is you gotta always watch your surroundings!
    Thanks for the good info you all have to say, and have a safe happy day... :grin:
  12. deercrossing

    deercrossing Guest

    Starting out right!

    Thank you for the info. I am grateful for the insite to starting out with the best set up I can put toghter. I will be driving in the early am to work and need to be able to depend on the engine to work. Great info here.
  13. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks a million! Is this a great site or what?
  14. 57larry

    57larry Guest

    thanks for the tips
  15. Maddaddy

    Maddaddy Guest

    Hot Rodding

    Great tips there, Thanks for posting all that. I must say though that ignoring the potential of these fabulous little engines would be a real shame... The attempt to gain more performance from these engines is part of what draws some people to them.
    "Stock is a good starting point"
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for the compliments! Yes, these engines can be hot rodded, but they won't take much...that is the faster you go, the shorter you'll go fast!

    They are easy to work on though. :)
  17. OldPete

    OldPete Guest

    Good post. I like the part about, "If you like the way things work, wear a helmet." :razz: :smile:

    The best hot rodding is done by improving what should have been done at the factory. Several things I might consider doing if I ever run a Chinese motor.

    The head pipe to port match is a crime. The pipe should follow the contor of the port and be just a tad larger, maybe 1/16" around.
    The intake port match should be just the opposite, the manifold should follow the contor of the port but be 1/16"~1/8" smaller. This drop off step helps gasoline that has wetted the manifold and traveling slowly in the boundry layer of air to break up and atomize just before it enters the cylinder. This bit of fuel might account for maybe 10% of fuel used.

    NOTE: If you choose to do the above, try to keep the angle of manifold taper to 7 degees or close to it inorder to get the dimentions desired.
    More than 7 and the boundry layer pulls away and turbulance is induced.

    These two mods would increase milage and offer much better upper mid-range. Betcha.

    For those that want snappier mid-range, raise compression at your own peril by using a thinner head gasket. Make one out of dead soft copper sheet.

    Further peril for those that want higher rpm after the expansion chamber is not enough, raise the cylinder ports. This is not hard to do. Just add maybe .010"~.025" in extra cylinder base gasket to raise the ports, then thin the head gasket the same amount or more. Piston seizures are soon to follow if these measures are not taken slowly.

    Members that run in cool damp air are going to run better and last longer than those that run in hot dry air.

    Good post Bikeguy but do tell the folks to only buy 'n use UV proof zip-ties because otherwise they will age and disappear.
  18. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    I agree... With Most of it..

    Good post.. Lots of good info. Keep in mind this. Using Loc Tight will Void the Warranty on Dax Motors. A poper install and proper Maint does not require it. Not ever. Also..The Studs, nuts and bolts that come with the Dax kits are good enough and not needed to be replaced with Higher Automotive Grade. But..Again..That is the Dax kits. Not sure about other kits. Other than that. Those are the only two things I take issue with. And... Not a big issue at that.. Except the loc tight !!! I take big issue with that. Never..I mean never ever use loc tight on Dax motors !!! Or you will Void the Warranty..Big time !!!
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I stripped an exhaust stud without even trying. I use loctite on EVERYTHING.

    Just make sure you do so after the 30 day warranty period.

    Now, why does it void the warranty?

    Pete- as you stated "optimization" in this case is to improve what should have/could have been done at the factory.

    Hot rod these engines at your own (considerable) risk
  20. davidsis

    davidsis Guest

    Well written

    Like what you wrote about maintenance.