Recommended Engine Oil Brand?

Hey Quenton I notice that you have a clutch cable on your auto clutch. Do you use the lever to get your wheelies?
Sorry, I know this thread is about engine oils.

BTW, I tried a quart of Royal Purple oil once, I did not do any testing really, I did not notice any oil ejection. I did decide that the added expense did not seem worth while.
 
Well Unfortunately...or fortunately I had done the against the wall thing with the clutch before getting the feedback on this forum. Yesterday was the first time I was able to get the bike out on a sunny day. I was able to ride about 8 miles and I must admit that this bike really is snappy. I had to really watch it to keep it under 20 MPH. There is some slippage at start-up but once moving I back off the throttle and the clutch seems to lock up nicely. At any rate there seems to be no problem on any short hills. I try not to work it too hard until I have lots more miles on it. So far I am very happy with this bike. It starts easy and at least in my case I really like the solid thunk sound that hits your ear. Sort of Harley, Norton, Triumph thumper sound all combined, but more motorcycle than motor bike sound, and definitely not 2 stroke. Great bike!!
 
Whizzer Engine Oil

These oil conversations are always fascinating to me and end up leading to the same place religious and political discussions always do - nowhere. Depending on which forum you are reading people will insist to the death that you can not use detergent oil in a flathead ("they're old engines and detergent oils were not yet invented then"). Another contingent will insist you can only use petroleum based detergent oils in flathead ("you have to have detergents to suspend the carbon particles, synthetics foam, they're too thin, etc"). Yet another quarter will insist that you should only use synthetics due to their superior thermal stability ("in an engine that runs as hot as a free-air flathead you want the added thermal stability that only synthetics can provide"). I have my own oil biases, but that's not relevant here. The reality is that you can use any one of them successfully if you feel it is a good oil and change it often. The ability to keep oil in an engine with a poorly designed breather system is a separate issue. Fix the breather and use the oil you want if that's the issue.

I know many people that have used single weight and multi-weight synthetics in their Whizzers, Cushmans, Mustangs, and Harley Davidsons, and beat the living daylights out of them with absolutely no issues at all. I have personally used 0W-40 and 15W-40 synthetics in SV and OHV Whizzers, including for break-ins, with no issues whatsoever. Likewise, I know people that don't like synthetics or multi-weights and they fare fine too.

I categorically reject the contention that synthetic oils foam to the point of compromising performance in "normal" engines. If synthetic oil foaming were a real issue how would the Jap crotch rockets that turn 12,000-14,000 rpm and cruise at 8000 rpm ever survive if the oil frothed excessively? By comparison a 6000 rpm Whizzer engine is in slow motion. Which do you think is the tougher of the two applications on an oil?

Regarding oil aeration/foaming, what do you think the inside of a Whizzer engine looks like after running at 5000-6000 rpm for an extended period of time? I'll bet at that stage the oil sump is almost dry (because oil is being centrifugally thrown to the case surfaces and can't quickly return to the bottom end in the highly turbulent state), the oil is highly aerated, and the entire lower end is a wild mass of suspended oil mist/droplets driven by a rotating assembly generating turbulence akin to what sent Dorothy away in the Kansas twister. I think it's safe to say that all oils (petro and synthetic) froth appreciably under such conditions.

In cases where seals (or breathers) are not up to snuff, synthetics have always been more challenging to keep in an engine than petroleum oils. In engines with good seals (and breathers), both synthetics and petroleum based oils absolutely stay put.

On the subject of oil grade/viscosity, when oils are graded by the manufacturer, it is because they provide a specified range of viscosity. If the oil is graded as a 40 weight, it provides the same viscosity as other 40 wt oils. Synthetic- and petroleum-based oils of the same weight provide the same viscosity - synthetics are not lower viscosity.

Just my $0.02 worth. Please use the oil type of your choosing as there is not a right or wrong choice - only your choice.
 
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I’ll bet at that stage the oil sump is almost dry (because oil is being centrifugally thrown to the case surfaces and can’t quickly return to the bottom end in the highly turbulent state), the oil is highly aerated, and the entire lower end is a wild mass of suspended oil mist/droplets driven by a rotating assembly generating turbulence akin to what sent Dorothy away in the Kansas twister. I think it’s safe to say that all oils (petro and synthetic) froth appreciably under such conditions.


You evidently are not aware of how a Whizzer is lubricated. The Whizzer is splash oiled by a dasher rod on the bottom of the connecting rod. Synthetic oils are endowed with better shear properties (a good thing in oil pump equipped motors). These properties are the the crux of the problem in a dasher lubricated engine. The dasher engines thrash the oil around with a rotating rod and that is where the issue starts. Blow By combined with a faulty breather allow the synthetics to be ejected because they are better lubricants.

The fact is that these two factors combine to create the oil ejection problem. Breather modifications help to correct this but the synthetic properties make the problem difficult to manage in a Whizzer engine with even a small amount of blow by. I have seen the results personally. Synthetic oils get ejected when any blow by is present, but 40wt conventional oil is not.

Lastly to clarify the facts, THERE IS NO OIL PUMP OR FILTER ON a Whizzer engine!
 
Whizzer Engine Oil

You evidently are not aware of how a Whizzer is lubricated. The Whizzer is splash oiled by a dasher rod on the bottom of the connecting rod. Synthetic oils are endowed with better shear properties (a good thing in oil pump equipped motors). These properties are the the crux of the problem in a dasher lubricated engine. The dasher engines thrash the oil around with a rotating rod and that is where the issue starts. Blow By combined with a faulty breather allow the synthetics to be ejected because they are better lubricants.

The fact is that these two factors combine to create the oil ejection problem. Breather modifications help to correct this but the synthetic properties make the problem difficult to manage in a Whizzer engine with even a small amount of blow by. I have seen the results personally. Synthetic oils get ejected when any blow by is present, but 40wt conventional oil is not.

Lastly to clarify the facts, THERE IS NO OIL PUMP OR FILTER ON a Whizzer engine!


I’m well aware of how Whizzers are oiled and how far the dasher enters the oil reservoir in the sump (the well where the oil resides in the bottom of the case - just in case you weren't familiar with how a Whizzer is lubricated). Neither you or I know the oil level in the case when the engine is at maximum rotation speed except to say that it would certainly be depressed as compared to where it would be at 2000-3000 rpm. You think the sump remains full at 6000 rpm? Lack of adequate oiling for this very reason (dry sump) is one of the limitations of splash oiled engines and why it can be problematic for high rpm engines of splash design, i.e., those operating at 10,000 + rpm.

In either case I and many other people have used synthetics in vintage Whizzers and Mustangs (both splash systems with blowby) with no issue whatsoever. Say what you will about shear viscosity, and blowby (which they all have to some extent) - synthetics work fine in my vintage equipment.
 
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Is a fully synthetic straight weight (40W) available? I only found multi-viscosity fully synthetic oils at my local auto parts store.
 
The synthetic multigrade question.

Having heard many of the arguments and opinions regarding oil types in a Whizzer. I again talked to Dave, the tech at the www.whizzermotorbike.com. He again stated what he had told me a few days back and this is my paraphrasing, and not exact words...but I did get the message)
:unsure::unsure::unsure:ON A STOCK ENGINE as it comes installed on the bike "after the break-in period of about 200 miles with 40 weight oil the rings are seated in, and the crankcase pressure drops considerably". He then went on to explain how they performed the scientific test to determine the crankcase oil temp differential between a straight 40w and a multigrade synthetic 20-50w. They drilled a hole in a crankcase dipstick plug and inserted a thermometer through the hole to read the oil temp in the engine under a loaded condition. This test was done a number of times with straight 40W and then with a synthetic 20-50w multigrade. He stated that over a number of tests the synthetic multi grade 20-50w consistently produced lower oil temps on average of 18 degrees. This real world testing seemed to me to have more validity then just assuming what might occur. In my questioning to him regarding the problem of the oil blowing out of the breather, he stated that because of the extreme crankcase blowby common in a new engine before proper ring seating, that whatever oil would be used would tend to have this problem and the reason for the heavy viscosity recommendation during breakin. After breakin and everything is seated, the pressure in the crankcase is reduced considerably
Finally he offered and sent me a PVC type Whizzer accessory to eliminate any oil loss through the breather. I had seen on this forum, plans for a home built type attachment to solve this problem and had intended to build one. I just received the Whizzer accessory and all the necessary clips, hoses and fittings very nicely done for less than $15. Hard to buy all the parts and pieces for any less and have it look as good. I mentioned the post on this forum of a person saying that his friend tried a multigrade and was losing a large amount of oil every few miles. The Whizzer Tech said that that fellow had more problems than multigrade oil and it. So who does one believe? Logic would dictate that if the Whizzer co. who must stand behind the warranty on a new bike for 1 year, would not be recommending something that would increase there warranty costs. I think that for further clarification one should call Whizzer and ask for Dave because I stated the facts as best as I could remember from the conversation. I do not wish to convey the impression that others who post from experience are right or wrong...only that there certainly are Whizzers with many different configurations and modifications to engine and parts. I am only referring to information I have obtained from the distributors of a new stock NE5 Whizzer.
 
Whizzer Techs?

Sorry Galliano
to slam "Dave at Whizzer tech" but if the Whizzer experts in Texas knew what the real world was like our Whizzers would run great as WC1's from the factory & we would never need things like NE upgrade kits & would never have problems like oil blowing out everywhere it can find to. Like all over my back fender. My rear wheel hub would never blow out & needed to be upgraded to a Shimano hub, Etc, Etc.
 
Which engine are you referring to

I have a 2008 NE5 with now about 125 miles on it. I so far have seen no oil residue anywhere and so far my oil is down about 1/16th of an inch on the stick. I do not find that unusual in a new engine. Is the WC1 you refer to an earlier engine? My bike has drum brakes front and rear and so far they seem to work well. I checked them for excessive heat on a long down hill trip today and they are not overly hot. Hopefully each ascending year will show some improvment. I do not expect that these Whizzer engines are of Honda quality. Had I wanted that I would be riding a bland Honda made machine, but the Whizzer provides me with memories and lots more conversation on the road. Just today an elderly gentleman flagged me down and stated "my god is that a Whizzer. I haven't seen one for 50 years." We spent nearly 45 minutes reminiscing. Thats worth a littl oil on the fender and whatever it takes to keep the little bugger running. Sorry your having the problem. Take care and good luck
 
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