jbcruisin
Member
The WC1 was the 1999 to 2004. I think I'm accurate on that. My 99 top end blew at about 100 miles. they were known for that. That's why whizzer sold the NE upgrade kit on their website. Nice way to make a profit.
Recommended Engine Oil Brand?
- Thread starter Hal the Elder
- Start date
KilroyCD
Active Member
galliano
New Member
I agree Kilroy
I also noted that and that is exactly why while having a conversation with him about my inability to find any good old straight 40w at any of the local Auto supplies, and including the local Wal-Mart ( I finally did at a local truck station). This is when he gave me the information to just use 20-50 synthetic after the initial break in period. I have went back to him twice, because of the amount of varying conversations and disagreements on this forum. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of an engine cooking or failing from the use any oil other than the straight 40w. I who have had some of the original Whizzers in the 40's and 50's can recall that I between riding and work or maintenance on the bike usually required equal time. These newer bikes in my opinion with the latter ignition etc are much improved over my first bike just after the War. My mother could usually always tell if I was in the vicinity, by listening for the squeel my belt made when releasing the clutch
). So far these later bikes, at least in my memories seem much improved. I can remember filing and adjusted points to see if it would either start it at all or go just a hair faster. I go out into the garage now and the engine usually starts in about 2 kicks. Its not a Honda but a lot more fun. Thanks for all the opinions.
I also noted that and that is exactly why while having a conversation with him about my inability to find any good old straight 40w at any of the local Auto supplies, and including the local Wal-Mart ( I finally did at a local truck station). This is when he gave me the information to just use 20-50 synthetic after the initial break in period. I have went back to him twice, because of the amount of varying conversations and disagreements on this forum. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of an engine cooking or failing from the use any oil other than the straight 40w. I who have had some of the original Whizzers in the 40's and 50's can recall that I between riding and work or maintenance on the bike usually required equal time. These newer bikes in my opinion with the latter ignition etc are much improved over my first bike just after the War. My mother could usually always tell if I was in the vicinity, by listening for the squeel my belt made when releasing the clutch
). So far these later bikes, at least in my memories seem much improved. I can remember filing and adjusted points to see if it would either start it at all or go just a hair faster. I go out into the garage now and the engine usually starts in about 2 kicks. Its not a Honda but a lot more fun. Thanks for all the opinions.Hi Galliano,
Next time you talk to Dave, ask him who developed the breather you just purchased. I still have the email admitting that they were using my design. Also ask why the oil vent system has been changed so many times since the 1999 model.
On the 1999 model the hose from the left side of the motor was attached to the air filter, whoops! The oil line soon saturated the air filter and often plugged it up and the motor couldn't run correctly. Suddenly the oil vent line was vented into the air on the next models [how environmently friendly is that?]. Next change had the oil vent line routed to a fitting in the compression cover, and a "T" with a hose to vent into the air again. Suddenly another change was made, a second fitting on the compression cover was added with another hose venting into the air, but at least they ran the hose down the seat post tube and the hose always kept the center stand well lubricated.
Make no mistake about it, they have always had problems with the oil purging from the motor. Sadly some owners didn't realize how quickly the 8 ounces of oil can leave the motor via the vent system and ended up with "locked" motors [I have rebuilt several, and even purchased a few used motors from Whizzer that were "locked"]
A simple look at the "vintage", WC-1 and NE oil vent systems will show the problems, and why some work and some don't. The "vintage" motors had a plate located inside the case at the top rear. This plate blocked the oil thrown from the rod dasher, creating a "Large" air pocket in the crankcase, two holes were then drilled on the side to vent the "pocket" via a breather filled with a metal mesh and used a clapper valve. When the original Whizzer company modifed the system to increase the oil level from 6 ounces to 8 ounces, they simply made the breather taller, and installed more metal mesh. The "vintage" system worked!
The WC-1 motor had a series of small passages cast into the crankcase to vent the pressure, and was doomed from the start because of bad engineering. Consider this, with equal pressure applied to a hose, which will "squirt" the greatest distance a small garden hose or a large hose [from a fire truck]. How can the crankcase vent on the WC-1 motor if the line is always filled with oil? It is clear by looking at all the lines & filters & fittings on the later WC-1 motor, that someone was trying to create the missing air pocket needed to vent the crankcase and tried to use the tappet cavity as part of the solution.
The engineering staff at Whizzer [or in Taiwan], must have discovered the shortcomings of the WC-1 design and completly deserted the concept by blocking off the original vent on the side of the motor. Next they drilled a .475" hole in the tappet chamber at the bottom of the cylinder. Now I ask you, what might happen if you drill a .475" hole DIRECTLY in line with the rod dasher? In case anyone has a problem with that question, here is the answer, the tappet chamber fills up with oil rather quickly. Next they attached a larger hose with a porous fitting in the end. In short order the excessive oil finds it way up the tube, and usually ended up all over the rear fender & tire.
In order to make the NE vent system work correctly I simply installed a plate over the .475" hole and caused the flying oil to hit the plate and drop downward, when you look inside most of the later NE cylinders you will see a casting above the hole where they tried to copy my design, sadly the made it too high and didn't work correctly. My next venture was to install a aluminum tube from the hole to within 1/8" from the top of the tappet chamber, thus causing the oil to travel higher and hit the top of the chamber, once again to drop downward. I drilled 2 small holes at the bottom of the tube to allow oil to drop back into the crankcase and prevent the chamber from filling up with oil. You can see my system in cylinders & cylinder kits I sold over the last several years. You can see a copy of my system in many of the later NE cylinders, in fact you can see where they drilled a hole in the ledge and inserted a tube in an effort to solve the problem. Sadly they didn't make the tube a press fit in the .475" hole, and the tube is too short and allows the chamber to fill up with oil anyway.
Next I made a 4" long tube with a 7/8" I.D. filled with metal mesh [pot scrubber material from Dollar General Store], installed a Ford Bronco PCV valve, and completely stopped the oil flow via the vent system. Wanna see the original of the vent they just sold you? See the photo at the bottom. I have spent more time working on the oil vent problem than anyone in America and even made special side covers to watch the oil flow on a running motor [see photo]
Now that you have the facts, you decide who knows what they are talking about, fair enough?
Above all Whizzers are great! In fact I own about 15 Whizzers in my personal collection.
Have fun,
Next time you talk to Dave, ask him who developed the breather you just purchased. I still have the email admitting that they were using my design. Also ask why the oil vent system has been changed so many times since the 1999 model.
On the 1999 model the hose from the left side of the motor was attached to the air filter, whoops! The oil line soon saturated the air filter and often plugged it up and the motor couldn't run correctly. Suddenly the oil vent line was vented into the air on the next models [how environmently friendly is that?]. Next change had the oil vent line routed to a fitting in the compression cover, and a "T" with a hose to vent into the air again. Suddenly another change was made, a second fitting on the compression cover was added with another hose venting into the air, but at least they ran the hose down the seat post tube and the hose always kept the center stand well lubricated.
Make no mistake about it, they have always had problems with the oil purging from the motor. Sadly some owners didn't realize how quickly the 8 ounces of oil can leave the motor via the vent system and ended up with "locked" motors [I have rebuilt several, and even purchased a few used motors from Whizzer that were "locked"]
A simple look at the "vintage", WC-1 and NE oil vent systems will show the problems, and why some work and some don't. The "vintage" motors had a plate located inside the case at the top rear. This plate blocked the oil thrown from the rod dasher, creating a "Large" air pocket in the crankcase, two holes were then drilled on the side to vent the "pocket" via a breather filled with a metal mesh and used a clapper valve. When the original Whizzer company modifed the system to increase the oil level from 6 ounces to 8 ounces, they simply made the breather taller, and installed more metal mesh. The "vintage" system worked!
The WC-1 motor had a series of small passages cast into the crankcase to vent the pressure, and was doomed from the start because of bad engineering. Consider this, with equal pressure applied to a hose, which will "squirt" the greatest distance a small garden hose or a large hose [from a fire truck]. How can the crankcase vent on the WC-1 motor if the line is always filled with oil? It is clear by looking at all the lines & filters & fittings on the later WC-1 motor, that someone was trying to create the missing air pocket needed to vent the crankcase and tried to use the tappet cavity as part of the solution.
The engineering staff at Whizzer [or in Taiwan], must have discovered the shortcomings of the WC-1 design and completly deserted the concept by blocking off the original vent on the side of the motor. Next they drilled a .475" hole in the tappet chamber at the bottom of the cylinder. Now I ask you, what might happen if you drill a .475" hole DIRECTLY in line with the rod dasher? In case anyone has a problem with that question, here is the answer, the tappet chamber fills up with oil rather quickly. Next they attached a larger hose with a porous fitting in the end. In short order the excessive oil finds it way up the tube, and usually ended up all over the rear fender & tire.
In order to make the NE vent system work correctly I simply installed a plate over the .475" hole and caused the flying oil to hit the plate and drop downward, when you look inside most of the later NE cylinders you will see a casting above the hole where they tried to copy my design, sadly the made it too high and didn't work correctly. My next venture was to install a aluminum tube from the hole to within 1/8" from the top of the tappet chamber, thus causing the oil to travel higher and hit the top of the chamber, once again to drop downward. I drilled 2 small holes at the bottom of the tube to allow oil to drop back into the crankcase and prevent the chamber from filling up with oil. You can see my system in cylinders & cylinder kits I sold over the last several years. You can see a copy of my system in many of the later NE cylinders, in fact you can see where they drilled a hole in the ledge and inserted a tube in an effort to solve the problem. Sadly they didn't make the tube a press fit in the .475" hole, and the tube is too short and allows the chamber to fill up with oil anyway.
Next I made a 4" long tube with a 7/8" I.D. filled with metal mesh [pot scrubber material from Dollar General Store], installed a Ford Bronco PCV valve, and completely stopped the oil flow via the vent system. Wanna see the original of the vent they just sold you? See the photo at the bottom. I have spent more time working on the oil vent problem than anyone in America and even made special side covers to watch the oil flow on a running motor [see photo]
Now that you have the facts, you decide who knows what they are talking about, fair enough?
Above all Whizzers are great! In fact I own about 15 Whizzers in my personal collection.
Have fun,
Attachments
Last edited:
galliano
New Member
Quenton I am sorry.
Quenton. As a new member to this forum and relaying a conversation I had with the makers of the Whizzer, I sense I may have upset you. That was not in any way my intent. I did not realize that in simply repeating the information from the tech at the Whizzer Company, that I would create any hard feelings amongst any member. I was suprised to read your requests of what I should ask another person with whom it sounds very much like you may not agree with. I would not feel right in doing what you ask of me below:
"Hi Galliano,
Next time you talk to Dave, ask him who developed the breather you just purchased. I still have the email admitting that they were using my design. Also ask why the oil vent system has been changed so many times since the 1999 model"
Knowing what I know now, from your posting to me, I applaud you for the design, as it is very neat. I meant no offense to you, by purchasing the breather from them, or to take anything from you or the design. In fact I was unaware that you had designed it. If you think that they should mention that you designed it, when I purchased it, I would rather you talk to them as I would not feel it my place to do so. Finally your statement at the end of your post in quotations below, seems to intimate I should pick a winner, so to speak. My quest was for information, and farthest from my mind was picking a side.
"Now that you have the facts, you decide who knows what they are talking about, fair enough?:
I did not realize I was creating any a controversy and have no desire to do so. I will from now on, refrain from posting any information other than questions I may have of you and others. At my age of 74 I have found that each and every day I learn something I did not know yesterday and what I thought I knew for sure, is usually only good for the moment.
I truly value yours and others expertise and know at sometime in the future I will be asking your advice. By the tone of your post to me, I sense you might have felt that I was taking sides between you and the distributor. I will assure you that that was not my intentions and if you feel I was, I heartily apologize. At my age I have no dog in any fight. Just trying to learn about and enjoy my new Whizzer. Take care. Bruno
Quenton. As a new member to this forum and relaying a conversation I had with the makers of the Whizzer, I sense I may have upset you. That was not in any way my intent. I did not realize that in simply repeating the information from the tech at the Whizzer Company, that I would create any hard feelings amongst any member. I was suprised to read your requests of what I should ask another person with whom it sounds very much like you may not agree with. I would not feel right in doing what you ask of me below:
"Hi Galliano,
Next time you talk to Dave, ask him who developed the breather you just purchased. I still have the email admitting that they were using my design. Also ask why the oil vent system has been changed so many times since the 1999 model"
Knowing what I know now, from your posting to me, I applaud you for the design, as it is very neat. I meant no offense to you, by purchasing the breather from them, or to take anything from you or the design. In fact I was unaware that you had designed it. If you think that they should mention that you designed it, when I purchased it, I would rather you talk to them as I would not feel it my place to do so. Finally your statement at the end of your post in quotations below, seems to intimate I should pick a winner, so to speak. My quest was for information, and farthest from my mind was picking a side.
"Now that you have the facts, you decide who knows what they are talking about, fair enough?:
I did not realize I was creating any a controversy and have no desire to do so. I will from now on, refrain from posting any information other than questions I may have of you and others. At my age of 74 I have found that each and every day I learn something I did not know yesterday and what I thought I knew for sure, is usually only good for the moment.
I truly value yours and others expertise and know at sometime in the future I will be asking your advice. By the tone of your post to me, I sense you might have felt that I was taking sides between you and the distributor. I will assure you that that was not my intentions and if you feel I was, I heartily apologize. At my age I have no dog in any fight. Just trying to learn about and enjoy my new Whizzer. Take care. Bruno
Last edited:
Hi Galliano,
Sorry! I am not upset in any way. I was just trying to help you obtain factual information that would help you with your Whizzer. Often companies supply us with false information, and I only wanted to stress the importance of checking around. You will find more accurate information on this site about your Whizzer because we actually ride them, and work on them. We gladly share this information because we want you to enjoy your Whizzer to the fullest.
I regret that I may have mislead you into thinking I was upset in anyway, because I am not. I welcome any questions you have and hope I can help you get the most from your Whizzer. I have spent the last 6 years ironing out problems on the Whizzer motor, and have helped many avoid becoming disapointed over minor glitches. Anytime you need information, pictures, test results, parts, upgrades, or anything concerning Whizzers, please ask. I have several new edition Whizzers with over 6000 miles each, and have figured out ways to make them more fun and "bullet" proof.
Once again, Please feel free to ask anything about your Whizzer on this site, because there are many Whizzer owners willing to help.
Have fun,
Sorry! I am not upset in any way. I was just trying to help you obtain factual information that would help you with your Whizzer. Often companies supply us with false information, and I only wanted to stress the importance of checking around. You will find more accurate information on this site about your Whizzer because we actually ride them, and work on them. We gladly share this information because we want you to enjoy your Whizzer to the fullest.
I regret that I may have mislead you into thinking I was upset in anyway, because I am not. I welcome any questions you have and hope I can help you get the most from your Whizzer. I have spent the last 6 years ironing out problems on the Whizzer motor, and have helped many avoid becoming disapointed over minor glitches. Anytime you need information, pictures, test results, parts, upgrades, or anything concerning Whizzers, please ask. I have several new edition Whizzers with over 6000 miles each, and have figured out ways to make them more fun and "bullet" proof.
Once again, Please feel free to ask anything about your Whizzer on this site, because there are many Whizzer owners willing to help.
Have fun,
R
ren
Guest
I have a question, where can one get a Whizzer dealer service manual like KilroyCD shows in his above post and is there one for an '07 Whizzer? I guess that's two questions.
Thanks
Thanks
go-rebels
Member
Is a fully synthetic straight weight (40W) available?
M
MotorbikeMike
Guest
Whizzer Manual
Hi Ren, there are no manuals for the NE5 which was introduced in late 2004. The manual he has is an out of print version for the WC1 Whizzer.
Differences? Well the head, barrel, carb, cam, lifters, pipe (if you have the big pipe) baffle (if you have the big one), ex manifold (if you have big pipe), Mirror (if yours is round) Signals (if you have them), and a few other lil things.
The autoclutch is not the same as the early one, tho I do not remember if it is covered in the manual.
If you have questions about your bike, we will try to help you, and during the work-week, WhizzerUSA is open for questions.
Mike
Hi Ren, there are no manuals for the NE5 which was introduced in late 2004. The manual he has is an out of print version for the WC1 Whizzer.
Differences? Well the head, barrel, carb, cam, lifters, pipe (if you have the big pipe) baffle (if you have the big one), ex manifold (if you have big pipe), Mirror (if yours is round) Signals (if you have them), and a few other lil things.
The autoclutch is not the same as the early one, tho I do not remember if it is covered in the manual.
If you have questions about your bike, we will try to help you, and during the work-week, WhizzerUSA is open for questions.
Mike
Hi Everyone,
I just wish to add a few more details about the differences between the WC-1 and the NE motors.
Add the following; larger head bolts, larger intake valve, different head gasket [3 different versions], compression cover, vent hose, intake spacers, exhaust manifold spacer, alternator is different on the later NE motors, automatic clutches, band brake, expanding rear brake, front brake, 10 MM spark plug, side cover, side cover bolts, carburetor mounting studs, air breathers, lifter clearance settings, torque settings, carburetor adjustments, new oil breather system, pedal crank assembly on later models, and brake adjustments [seems to me as a safety issue they should at least send information about brake adjustments].
In addition to the list there have been several versions of certain items including the head, muffler insert, exhaust pipe, lifters ["soft" and mushroom], wiring harness, and rear brake.
Sure would be nice to have a service manual covering the different editions of motors, however I would think at the minimum a manual covering brakes and brake adjustments, EPA information, and related safety items.
Hopefully as time allows we plan to list some of the information on our web site about the NE motors, and expanded infromation on brakes, and automaic clutch systems. We would also welcome any contibutions from owners concerning brakes & adjustments, and would gladly post the information.
Have fun,
I just wish to add a few more details about the differences between the WC-1 and the NE motors.
Add the following; larger head bolts, larger intake valve, different head gasket [3 different versions], compression cover, vent hose, intake spacers, exhaust manifold spacer, alternator is different on the later NE motors, automatic clutches, band brake, expanding rear brake, front brake, 10 MM spark plug, side cover, side cover bolts, carburetor mounting studs, air breathers, lifter clearance settings, torque settings, carburetor adjustments, new oil breather system, pedal crank assembly on later models, and brake adjustments [seems to me as a safety issue they should at least send information about brake adjustments].
In addition to the list there have been several versions of certain items including the head, muffler insert, exhaust pipe, lifters ["soft" and mushroom], wiring harness, and rear brake.
Sure would be nice to have a service manual covering the different editions of motors, however I would think at the minimum a manual covering brakes and brake adjustments, EPA information, and related safety items.
Hopefully as time allows we plan to list some of the information on our web site about the NE motors, and expanded infromation on brakes, and automaic clutch systems. We would also welcome any contibutions from owners concerning brakes & adjustments, and would gladly post the information.
Have fun,
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