An acetone success

[Flapdoodle]

The ignition timing probably varies from engine to engine due to tolerances in the electronic components in the CDI module

That is also a good bet. Long ago I had a neon type timing light. Wish I could find it now. Your tests should give us some insight into just what we are dealing with.

Perhaps someone who is reading this thread and has changed the CDI module could tell us if he could detect any difference between modules in the way the engine ran.

 

[arceeguy]

I've swapped out different CDI units and never really noticed any difference between them. I'm sure that the CDI units on a briggs or Honda utility engine have about the same variation in timing from unit to unit for the same reasons, but a few degrees one way or the other isn't going to mean much to a small utility engine.

My main motivation for upgrading the ignition is that the pit bike ignitions have a RPM based timing advance curve that will probably help top end power. The spark will also be a bit hotter, and that will help with starting and plug life. The spark produced by the stock CDI is barely adequate IMO. I want to hear a hearty *snap* and a bright blue spark, not the little *tick* and skinny spark that the stock unit produces.

 

[duivendyk]

The spark duration with CDI unit is a lot shorter than with a coil based system,which is actually an oscillatory discharge (coil inductance and the cap to ground.It appears that a short very intense spark is less effective in intiating ignition of the micture than an one of longer duration,even if the spark energy is the same.For that reason in racing engines CDI units are used that generate multiple short duration pulses.I once built a CDI unit that had lots of spark energy,but a short duration spark something like 10 microseconds or less, I think.It did not work all that well and took a lot of juice.So then I switched to a transistorized, coil based system which perforned better.A short duration discharge is not as visible to the eye than a longer oscillatory discharge of equal energy.A "fat" pulse may be just a longer duration discharge.

 

[Mike H.]

Holy $hit-- I just wanted to get a little more power off a cheap chinese motor that I put on a bike frame that I found in the trash!

Seriously, though, I AM interested in the results of what you're doing, as the whole engine theory thing is fascinating to me. You might even make me take my HD apart again...

 

[Egor]

There have been quite a few studies done on acetone as a fuel additive. As I understand it would do what the "Oxygenated fuel we get in Ca" is supposed to do. But the Alcohol we get is another debacle we get instead. All the tests have been done to prove that Acetone does not dissolve engine components, so if it is true that Acetone unseals gasoline so that is burns better give it a go. In one of these little engines it will probably actually show up in cleaner running or better mileage. Have fun, Dave

PS: Alcohol is very corrosive, eats aluminum.

 

[machiasmort]

I use acetone regularly to prep surfaces for tape or glue (epoxy) ect.
I highly recomend it's use only second to alcohol for this purpose. Just my two cents. Give it a try, it works wonders!

 

[arceeguy]

Holy $hit-- I just wanted to get a little more power off a cheap chinese motor that I put on a bike frame that I found in the trash!

Seriously, though, I AM interested in the results of what you're doing, as the whole engine theory thing is fascinating to me. You might even make me take my HD apart again...

I have learned that nothing, I mean NOTHING - comes easy when you are trying to increase performance. Companies make millions off of people with the promise of fixing or improving your engine with a product that is added to the fuel or oil. (Slick50, etc.) If acetone was as good as people claim, and is totally safe, why don't we see a few cents worth of acetone blended into a commercially made fuel treatment like STP?

As for the performance increase in an imported bicycle engine, maybe the acetone lowered the octane rating enough to positively affect combustion in these low compression engines. Maybe it leaned out the a/f ratio a bit to reduce the "four cycling" of a rich running two stroke. Who knows?

For me, the way to get this lump of an engine to perform better, it needs an overhaul of the ignition and fuel system - and I ain't talking a K&N air filter and gutted muffler!

If you go to this website:

http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp

You can check the compatibility of acetone with different materials.
I plugged in Viton and Buna-N, which are common materials for oil seals and float valve tips - both have a "Severe Effect' with acetone. I would venture to guess that exposure even at dilute levels will lead to eventual destruction of these components.

There have been quite a few studies done on acetone as a fuel additive. As I understand it would do what the "Oxygenated fuel we get in Ca" is supposed to do. But the Alcohol we get is another debacle we get instead. All the tests have been done to prove that Acetone does not dissolve engine components, so if it is true that Acetone unseals gasoline so that is burns better give it a go. In one of these little engines it will probably actually show up in cleaner running or better mileage. Have fun, Dave

Egor - do you have a link to any of the studies that show acetone is safe for engine and fuel system components?

 

[Egor]

Arcc, I have not looked into this for a few years. We had a local guy that was trying to exchange the alcohol we now get in Ca with the Acetone but was unable to get ca regs to even look at it. Alcohol lowers the mileage and is not a fossil based fuel so does not show up as smog producing chemical. I suspect that the co that produces it is palming a lot of money to some Bureaucrat. Also it gives the fuel co's and excuse to raise the price of fuel because it is so hard to do (yea rite) I used to run Alkie in my race bikes back in the day and it is very caustic, it loves Aluminum. After a short time using it if you ran your finger down the needle you could feel the rough surface. I will Google it an see what I can find. Have fun, Dave

 

[arceeguy]

Arcc, I have not looked into this for a few years. We had a local guy that was trying to exchange the alcohol we now get in Ca with the Acetone but was unable to get ca regs to even look at it. Alcohol lowers the mileage and is not a fossil based fuel so does not show up as smog producing chemical. I suspect that the co that produces it is palming a lot of money to some Bureaucrat. Also it gives the fuel co's and excuse to raise the price of fuel because it is so hard to do (yea rite) I used to run Alkie in my race bikes back in the day and it is very caustic, it loves Aluminum. After a short time using it if you ran your finger down the needle you could feel the rough surface. I will Google it an see what I can find. Have fun, Dave

I'm totally with you on the ethanol farce. It's not one company that produces alcohol, but an entire industry - which is the farming industry here in America. They get the enviro-weenies on their side and lobby government to mandate ethanol in our motor fuel. We have already seen the results of using food as fuel. Last year, the price of corn skyrocketed and there were riots in South America as the price of food went through the roof. I don't remember hearing any farmers complaining though. Looks like "big ethanol" is like "big oil" that everyone likes to trash.

I'm thinking if acetone can increase fuel mileage by 10-15%, a evil "big oil" company would have patented a fuel formulation with acetone and would be selling it. You might say that it isn't in their best interest to sell less oil, but it is! Since oil is increasingly hard to get out of the ground, they can make more profit by selling a formula that reduces consumption but has a higher profit margin. You'll still be addicted to oil, but they'll be pumping less out of the ground and making more money at the same time. Not evil thinking, but simple business economics. (I can see it now, Exxon "A89 fuel" - more power and better mileage - guaranteed!)

If anything, the acetone producing chemical companies are propagating this myth. (or the aftermarket fuel pump manufacturers association - hehehe)

However, I would love to see a credible study regarding the effects of acetone in gasoline. All I see are a lot of opinions from people claiming to be "fuel system engineers" or "petrochemical specialists" in internet forums.

 

[Flapdoodle]

I'm thinking if acetone can increase fuel mileage by 10-15%, a evil "big oil" company would have patented a fuel formulation with acetone and would be selling it.

If anything, the acetone producing chemical companies are propagating this myth. (or the aftermarket fuel pump manufacturers association - hehehe)

I tried acetone in my car about a year ago when there was a lot in the news about it. It did nothing except give the exhaust a slightly fruity smell. But it DOES work well in my bike! As I pointed out in an earlier post, results vary with the engine.

I can assure you I have no connection to any acetone producing company. (or any other company for that matter) I will continue to use it on a regular basis, and I doubt anything anyone can say in here against its use will make me stop.