tom-fishing
Member
Totally wicked, I like!
Bike build perilous
- Thread starter perilous
- Start date
Fabian
Well-Known Member
I love the tricked out engineering!!!
Hello Perilous,You Sir have great fabrication skills!...I tend to lurk and check out the competition on this site to get more ideas...And because of that I'm never finished with My bikes!...I think Your bike is right up there with best...You be safe on that red rocket :helmet: ....Tigmaster....
I just came across your build story and see some things that will help me. I like the black engine, I think I will paint mine like that. It never occurred to me how nice it would be to have a tach, I’m going to start looking for one. You did a really nice job, thanks for posting.
perilous
Member
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the positive comments I'm glad you like it!!!
Just thought I would post an update.
I have now ridden about 80Km over a couple of rides, bike has been going really well but had a few unexpected things happen. One of them very frustrating. I really like the staton gear box the sound of its straight cut gears are quite befitting.
1. Rear wheel doesn't look like it will last forever, It wasn't perfect when I started and seems a bit worse now.
2. I mentioned previously that the primary drive chain snapped, After some investigation I saw that the centripetal force of the chain rotating was able to over come the strength of the spring on the tensioner (which is not that strong). So at high engine speeds the chain was becoming very loose, I now think the first chain tried to jump off which caused the snap. I have improved that part of the bike now by making an adjustable guide for the driven sprocket, this also helps pre-load the automatic tensioner and seems to have solved the problem.
https://motoredbikes.com/media/albums/perilous.1556/
2. I brought this lithium grease from jaycar (who always seem to rip me off)
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NA1015
It took me a while to put 2 and 2 together but after applying this stuff the secondary drive chain
started having serious problems under load. I couldn't figure out what was going on. At light throttle it was OK but try and go any decent speed or up a hill and it would make horrible noises and send nasty shock waves through the whole drive train like when you shift gear at full throttle also the bike would jerk noticeably. I assumed that something had moved out of alignment or the tensioner wasn't strong enough. I wasted heaps and heaps of time and resorted to trying to recreate the issue in the work shop, this only served to make my brake pads smell like burning. After much messing around I thought the problem was solved but it wasn't, I managed to make it to my friends house and we spent the afternoon today working on the problem together. I would ride up and down the street and he would run next to the bike trying the video tape what was going on with the chain. It turned out at least 1/3 of the chain links were extremely stiff. I then figured out this problem started almost immediately after I put that lithium grease on. We soaked the chain in petrol and then motor oil and that cured the problem.
Interestingly enough the other 2 chains have not had any problems, perhaps you can't use lithium grease on pocket bike chains I really don't know.
3. Engine issue, about 5Km into a ride the engine started bellowing out blue smoke for about 5 minutes and then everything was fine again, the engine oil level did not drop noticeably after this.
At first light the next day I tried to go on a test ride, I pedaled to a quiet road to avoid waking any body up. The engine was hard to start but I got it going but only for about 30seconds and then it died.
It would not start again, not for love nor money or even cursing and swearing. I went back home and still would not start.
I checked for spark it was still good. I figured it was probably really flooded and didn't like the cold so I left it for a few hours and tried again, still would not start. I then discovered that the air box had oil in it and the filter had an oily stain on it.
At this point I removed the spark plug and found it was quite oily as well. Cleaned it up and reluctantly the engine spluttered back to life. Once it cleared it self it was perfectly happy, and has been ever since.
I can't quite explain that but the root cause must have been the breather. Really interested in any thoughts on this.
To be legal where I live my Pedal Cycle with Auxillary assist motor must be limited to 200watts. I made a "unprofessional" video to demonstrate the bikes performance after making it street legal. 200watts is slow but not a deal breaker in my opinion, but low gears are an absolute must otherwise you wouldn't bother. You will notice that the engine won't pull past ~5000RPM, before it would wind up beautifully. I start off on a flat level piece of road, then slight up hill ~1:00, bottom of a hill ~2:00 and then an ascend up a moderate grade. The whole time the bike is just WOT no pedaling at all.
Thanks for all the positive comments I'm glad you like it!!!
Just thought I would post an update.
I have now ridden about 80Km over a couple of rides, bike has been going really well but had a few unexpected things happen. One of them very frustrating. I really like the staton gear box the sound of its straight cut gears are quite befitting.
1. Rear wheel doesn't look like it will last forever, It wasn't perfect when I started and seems a bit worse now.
2. I mentioned previously that the primary drive chain snapped, After some investigation I saw that the centripetal force of the chain rotating was able to over come the strength of the spring on the tensioner (which is not that strong). So at high engine speeds the chain was becoming very loose, I now think the first chain tried to jump off which caused the snap. I have improved that part of the bike now by making an adjustable guide for the driven sprocket, this also helps pre-load the automatic tensioner and seems to have solved the problem.
https://motoredbikes.com/media/albums/perilous.1556/
2. I brought this lithium grease from jaycar (who always seem to rip me off)
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NA1015
It took me a while to put 2 and 2 together but after applying this stuff the secondary drive chain
started having serious problems under load. I couldn't figure out what was going on. At light throttle it was OK but try and go any decent speed or up a hill and it would make horrible noises and send nasty shock waves through the whole drive train like when you shift gear at full throttle also the bike would jerk noticeably. I assumed that something had moved out of alignment or the tensioner wasn't strong enough. I wasted heaps and heaps of time and resorted to trying to recreate the issue in the work shop, this only served to make my brake pads smell like burning. After much messing around I thought the problem was solved but it wasn't, I managed to make it to my friends house and we spent the afternoon today working on the problem together. I would ride up and down the street and he would run next to the bike trying the video tape what was going on with the chain. It turned out at least 1/3 of the chain links were extremely stiff. I then figured out this problem started almost immediately after I put that lithium grease on. We soaked the chain in petrol and then motor oil and that cured the problem.
Interestingly enough the other 2 chains have not had any problems, perhaps you can't use lithium grease on pocket bike chains I really don't know.
3. Engine issue, about 5Km into a ride the engine started bellowing out blue smoke for about 5 minutes and then everything was fine again, the engine oil level did not drop noticeably after this.
At first light the next day I tried to go on a test ride, I pedaled to a quiet road to avoid waking any body up. The engine was hard to start but I got it going but only for about 30seconds and then it died.
It would not start again, not for love nor money or even cursing and swearing. I went back home and still would not start.
I checked for spark it was still good. I figured it was probably really flooded and didn't like the cold so I left it for a few hours and tried again, still would not start. I then discovered that the air box had oil in it and the filter had an oily stain on it.
At this point I removed the spark plug and found it was quite oily as well. Cleaned it up and reluctantly the engine spluttered back to life. Once it cleared it self it was perfectly happy, and has been ever since.
I can't quite explain that but the root cause must have been the breather. Really interested in any thoughts on this.
To be legal where I live my Pedal Cycle with Auxillary assist motor must be limited to 200watts. I made a "unprofessional" video to demonstrate the bikes performance after making it street legal. 200watts is slow but not a deal breaker in my opinion, but low gears are an absolute must otherwise you wouldn't bother. You will notice that the engine won't pull past ~5000RPM, before it would wind up beautifully. I start off on a flat level piece of road, then slight up hill ~1:00, bottom of a hill ~2:00 and then an ascend up a moderate grade. The whole time the bike is just WOT no pedaling at all.
I like the way you made all the components fit into the space you had to work with. You had to solve a bunch of problems along the way. I really like the fuel tank, what is made from, how much does it hold.
How did you restrict the power to 200 watts (that's only 1/4 HP). What rpm do you run at cruising speed. I am thinking of using a front shifter as a throttle control and may limit the the max throttle opening to slightly lower the power output.
Thanks
How did you restrict the power to 200 watts (that's only 1/4 HP). What rpm do you run at cruising speed. I am thinking of using a front shifter as a throttle control and may limit the the max throttle opening to slightly lower the power output.
Thanks
Perilous, do the Australian authorities run dyno tests on motor bikes to ensure that they are at most 200 watts? I don't see how else they could say your motor is more powerful than the law allows.
Nice build by the way! It's a shame that it's limited to 200 watts.
Nice build by the way! It's a shame that it's limited to 200 watts.
perilous
Member
Hi Lee and flash star,
The fuel tank was a fluke and not part of the original plan, its made from a stainless steel drink bottle i found at woolworths one day I though it would be a good storage container for additional fuel. I also brought one of these on impulse for another idea I had:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Coyo...6447534?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item33759b5a2e
It just happened that the fuel cap was a perfect interference fit, I sprayed the inside with this Hylomar sealant stuff that you use for head gaskets. And very gently pressed it on. I drilled a 5/8 hole in the side and reused the original grommet from the fuel tank that came with the engine.
The fuel tank is not very big it only holds around 0.7L.
-----------------------------
I'm not an expert on how the rules are enforced and would love to know more. My suspicion is that the police operate on a reasonable usage directive. In other words if you keep the speed down and do everything right you will probably be left alone but go through a speed trap at over 40Kph without pedaling and you will see red and blue. I don't think they would dyno test the bike in fact I don't know how you would accurately dyno test for 200watts. But thats just my opinion, I don't really know.
I had a very unpleasant experience a few years back with regards to inappropriate conduct by 2 police officers. So for me I just don't want any trouble and feel much more comfortable riding the bike knowing that I'm complying to the letter of the law. Whenever I go riding I carry documentation that addresses every aspect of VSI 27 with regard to my bike and what I have done to ensure compliance.
-----------------------------
In term of limiting the bike, what I did was use the following formula:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance#Power_required
to determine the maximum speed the bike could legally travel under its own power on a level road with out any wind.
I then used various crude methods to temporarily limit the throttle and test rode the bike until I was 10% under the limit (to allow for assumptions in my calculations). I then drilled and tapped 2 holes in the twist throttle and installed screws to limit its movement, I then filled the heads of the screws with glue "so it can't be easily tampered with". Many years ago "in my younger days
" before motorised scooters were banned I remember looking at some in a shop that were certified 200watts and all the OEM had done was limit the throttle movement at the carb and placed a warning label on the limiting device. I'm fairly satisfied that I have limited the bike correctly because its performance is very similar to me pedaling it.
I can PM you my spreadsheet if you want.
-----------------------
My cruising rpm is around 5000.
-----------------------
If your wondering about my weired chain issue, I spoke to some people about it and the consensus seems to be that the lithium grease must have reacted in some way with what ever lubricant was put on at the factory.
The fuel tank was a fluke and not part of the original plan, its made from a stainless steel drink bottle i found at woolworths one day I though it would be a good storage container for additional fuel. I also brought one of these on impulse for another idea I had:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Coyo...6447534?pt=Race_Car_Parts&hash=item33759b5a2e
It just happened that the fuel cap was a perfect interference fit, I sprayed the inside with this Hylomar sealant stuff that you use for head gaskets. And very gently pressed it on. I drilled a 5/8 hole in the side and reused the original grommet from the fuel tank that came with the engine.
The fuel tank is not very big it only holds around 0.7L.
-----------------------------
I'm not an expert on how the rules are enforced and would love to know more. My suspicion is that the police operate on a reasonable usage directive. In other words if you keep the speed down and do everything right you will probably be left alone but go through a speed trap at over 40Kph without pedaling and you will see red and blue. I don't think they would dyno test the bike in fact I don't know how you would accurately dyno test for 200watts. But thats just my opinion, I don't really know.
I had a very unpleasant experience a few years back with regards to inappropriate conduct by 2 police officers. So for me I just don't want any trouble and feel much more comfortable riding the bike knowing that I'm complying to the letter of the law. Whenever I go riding I carry documentation that addresses every aspect of VSI 27 with regard to my bike and what I have done to ensure compliance.
-----------------------------
In term of limiting the bike, what I did was use the following formula:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance#Power_required
to determine the maximum speed the bike could legally travel under its own power on a level road with out any wind.
I then used various crude methods to temporarily limit the throttle and test rode the bike until I was 10% under the limit (to allow for assumptions in my calculations). I then drilled and tapped 2 holes in the twist throttle and installed screws to limit its movement, I then filled the heads of the screws with glue "so it can't be easily tampered with". Many years ago "in my younger days
" before motorised scooters were banned I remember looking at some in a shop that were certified 200watts and all the OEM had done was limit the throttle movement at the carb and placed a warning label on the limiting device. I'm fairly satisfied that I have limited the bike correctly because its performance is very similar to me pedaling it.I can PM you my spreadsheet if you want.
-----------------------
My cruising rpm is around 5000.
-----------------------
If your wondering about my weired chain issue, I spoke to some people about it and the consensus seems to be that the lithium grease must have reacted in some way with what ever lubricant was put on at the factory.
Links to eBay may include affiliate code. If you click on an eBay link and make a purchase, this forum may earn a small commission.
Thanks for the detailed response. I still have a lot of work just to get my bike running, eventually I will add a larger tank and use some of your ideas. You can see how I am doing in the recumbent section.
Where I live the law allows a maximum speed of 30 mph (48 kph). I intend to limit the throttle opening to get approximately 25 mph (40 kph) which will be about as fast as I can keep up with pedaling. At that speed the motor will be turning 4529 rpm and I will be pedaling at 82 rpm (I might have to change the gearing to speed the motor up to get closer to your 5000 rpm)
I don’t have a front derailleur and plan on using that shifter for the throttle control. There will be a pulley to change the cable ratio. The cable adjuster on the Subaru engine can be turned in far enough to limit the max throttle position. There will be three positions: idle, about 1/3 open & about 2/3 open. When I get this running I will use the calculations you noted to see how much power the motor is producing in those settings.
It’s good to hear from someone with your perspective.
Where I live the law allows a maximum speed of 30 mph (48 kph). I intend to limit the throttle opening to get approximately 25 mph (40 kph) which will be about as fast as I can keep up with pedaling. At that speed the motor will be turning 4529 rpm and I will be pedaling at 82 rpm (I might have to change the gearing to speed the motor up to get closer to your 5000 rpm)
I don’t have a front derailleur and plan on using that shifter for the throttle control. There will be a pulley to change the cable ratio. The cable adjuster on the Subaru engine can be turned in far enough to limit the max throttle position. There will be three positions: idle, about 1/3 open & about 2/3 open. When I get this running I will use the calculations you noted to see how much power the motor is producing in those settings.
It’s good to hear from someone with your perspective.
perilous
Member
Before I limited the bike the top speed was 43-44Kph but on my bike I'm turning 8000rpm at 46.5KPH in top gear so it was probably just running out of legs. I suspect you may not end up needing to limit your bike, but all that's fine tuning. I am surprised by how well the Subaru engine pulls in the lower RPM's but at 4500 I would be concerned about clutch engagement. The chart I have shows the clutch only able to hold about 0.3Kw at 4500.
I looked up the service manual and: engine max torque is at 5000RPM, clutch engagement is at 4200 - 4400rpm.
--------------------------
I found an interesting snip-pit on the subaruengines.com.au website about the EH025 and EH035 engines.
http://www.subaruengines.com.au/faqs.cfm
I think this puts my mind at ease with the issue I had, as it does have 10W-30 oil in it.
-------------------------
LOVE THE FORUM UPDATE, GREAT JOB GUYS!!!
I looked up the service manual and: engine max torque is at 5000RPM, clutch engagement is at 4200 - 4400rpm.
--------------------------
I found an interesting snip-pit on the subaruengines.com.au website about the EH025 and EH035 engines.
http://www.subaruengines.com.au/faqs.cfm
I think this puts my mind at ease with the issue I had, as it does have 10W-30 oil in it.
-------------------------
LOVE THE FORUM UPDATE, GREAT JOB GUYS!!!
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