SimpleSimon
Active Member
Okay, this really started (for me, at least) with augidog’s “Creative Interpretation” thread, but I’ve been asked to start a thread, so I will.
Combining the above with the ongoing thread post in the Electromotive thread;
And
The second paragraph of that last post is a separate can of worms.
I invite any and all ideas, critiques, addendums, whatever you might have to say. I will say this - such a system bulks up a good bit, although you might be surprised by how small/light it can be made if one is willing to spend the money (look at Matt Shumate’s electric recumbent).
For my own purposes and needs, I want a trike. Either delta or tadpole, although I personally prefer a tadpole configuration. Delta trikes are MUCH more common, and much easier to get as already functional bikes. So, I am working on such a system plan, as I told Mountainman:
I am, at this time, putting together a simplified plan to implement just such a system for a delta trike. It will be somewhat generic, as of course the individual component choices made by each builder will vary somewhat. The major system components are, however, pretty much the same as I envision it:
1) 2 cycle gas powered portable generator, as light and physically small as can be reasonably achieved, capable of producing approx 1 KW;
2) A battery pack - number/size of the batteries again being somewhat variable, but practically speaking capable of at least 24V, and a range of at least 15 km at full charge without the generator;
3) Motor/controller capable of powering the drive wheel(s) with reasonable acceleration, and of maintaining 20 mph on level ground; and
4) capable of propelling a 300+ lb load as described above - your average guy being around 200 lbs, the bike and system being another 60+, and a small payload capacity.
Multiple gears, with electric power delivered through the bike's pedal drive train, are a plus; as would be regenerative braking. Lots of little add-ons that would be nice; for instance, a good, bright lighting system.
Still working on the details at this time. Feel free to take the idea and run with it - from my point of view, the more bikes on the road the better, and such a system does not lend itself readily to abuse with high top speeds, etc.
"Creative Interpretation"
Okay, I kind of like that term. Here's my own variation on that theme for you.
Most states have laws addressing "motorized bicycles", and for many states, the laws treat an electric motor "assisted" bicycle a good bit differently than a gas engine "assisted" bicycle. I've been wading through the state laws addressing motorized bicycles, mopeds, and motorcycles for the last couple-three months now, in my spare time. Being disabled, it's the one thing I have a plentitude of.
Here's my take. E-bikes are, pretty much across the board, easier to get away with, so far as the law is concerned. With some variation, most states allow up to one horsepower electrically powered bikes pretty much anywhere a bicycle can go, including on bike paths. The problem with e-bikes is the batteries. Heavy, expensive, limited lifespans, and much too short a range for lots of folks.
Not one single state code I have read (over 35 of them, so far) adresses where the electricity to power the bike comes from. Not ONE of them.
Can you see where I'm headed, here? Those same small gas engines we see used to directly power the bikes are also used by lots of companies as the power sources for small portable generators, up to about 1 kw (or greater) capacity. Why not follow augidog's lead, and build a hybrid bike? A true hybrid, not a two "prime-mover" setup as he has implemented?
Forget batteries, except as a peak demand power sink. Run the generator to make the electricity, use the electricity to power the bike. Legally, it's an e-bike. Practically, it has the range of a "gas-assist" engined bike. Set the generator up to sense demand, let it run in its power band at an rpm where it is most efficient, and in effect get over 200 mpg. When max power isn't directly needed to power the motor (most of the time, really), let it keep the battery at max charge.
So - who wants to shoot holes in that one?
Combining the above with the ongoing thread post in the Electromotive thread;
I've looked at the motorized bicycle laws for about 40 states now. About 2/3 of them treat electric assisted bicycles a good bit more leniently than they do gasoline engined ones, if they recognize a difference at all.
Not one of those states addresses the source of the electricity. NOT ONE. The only things the law addresses is maximum attainable speed under electric drive, and maximum allowable power of the drive system. Typically, that's 20mph on level pavement, and/or various wattage ratings (varying from 200 watts to 1125 watts) and/or horsepower ratings (using 750 watts = one HP).
Since the law does NOT address the source of the electricity to power the bike motor(s), a simple small 2 stroke engine/generator set charging a battery as a power demand modulator is perfectly legal, and any cop who writes a ticket on the basis that the bike is gas powered is on a fool's errand. Sure, you might have to go to court - in which case hold out for a jury trial. Most importantly, know the law in your state, and local jurisdiction; keep a copy of it in your tool pouch, and most courteously offer to share that with the cop who stops you.
Yes, there are losses in such a system. That is unavoidable. They can, however, be made quite small, and since you are charging a battery as a power reservoir, you can set your generator up to charge at its most efficient rpm setting. Very probably, you can offset many of the losses of efficiency from variable throttling of the engine used as a prime mover.
And
I am working on a genericized simplified plan at this time. The electronics for control are really very straightforward. The major issue is that component choices in one part of the system must be met by compatible component choices in other parts of the system. Fortunately (or perhaps not, for some), the major choice is already made for you by your state laws, if they address electric assisted bicycles. That is - how much power can I apply? How fast can it run?
The second paragraph of that last post is a separate can of worms.
I invite any and all ideas, critiques, addendums, whatever you might have to say. I will say this - such a system bulks up a good bit, although you might be surprised by how small/light it can be made if one is willing to spend the money (look at Matt Shumate’s electric recumbent).
For my own purposes and needs, I want a trike. Either delta or tadpole, although I personally prefer a tadpole configuration. Delta trikes are MUCH more common, and much easier to get as already functional bikes. So, I am working on such a system plan, as I told Mountainman:
I am, at this time, putting together a simplified plan to implement just such a system for a delta trike. It will be somewhat generic, as of course the individual component choices made by each builder will vary somewhat. The major system components are, however, pretty much the same as I envision it:
1) 2 cycle gas powered portable generator, as light and physically small as can be reasonably achieved, capable of producing approx 1 KW;
2) A battery pack - number/size of the batteries again being somewhat variable, but practically speaking capable of at least 24V, and a range of at least 15 km at full charge without the generator;
3) Motor/controller capable of powering the drive wheel(s) with reasonable acceleration, and of maintaining 20 mph on level ground; and
4) capable of propelling a 300+ lb load as described above - your average guy being around 200 lbs, the bike and system being another 60+, and a small payload capacity.
Multiple gears, with electric power delivered through the bike's pedal drive train, are a plus; as would be regenerative braking. Lots of little add-ons that would be nice; for instance, a good, bright lighting system.
Still working on the details at this time. Feel free to take the idea and run with it - from my point of view, the more bikes on the road the better, and such a system does not lend itself readily to abuse with high top speeds, etc.