My Phantom Experience.
- Thread starter ImpulseRocket
- Start date
Karl Snarl
Well-Known Member
Yes
I want to thank you both for bringing these "new" problems with the Phantom to light...Myself and Karl Snarl have been monitoring reports on the Phantom 85 since they first came out and both of us wanted one until we heard about the problems they initially had on first generation with the bushings destroying the motors, Then the same thing the second time around on the second generation with the so-called "improved" bushings which were also a failed effort.
We were pretty keen to jump on them once they did the right thing by finally using the needle bearings that should have been used right out of the gate, (third times the charm they say, lol), but this is the first that anyone has reported metal filings, uneven matching on the casing halves as well as oil leak problems as mony0_3 is now reporting, so once again, thanks to both of you for bringing this to our attention and please keep us posted as to what bicycle-engine.com has to say in response, especially if you are still within the 6 month warranty conditions...You might just want to also email them a link to this forum thread while your at it to show that this information is being discussed by forum members who were also considering buying these Phantom 85 kits which we are now holding off from doing until they tell you what they intend to do about this problem...DAMIEN
Karl Snarl
Well-Known Member
Yep, because I'm not about to spend $900 plus on three engines that blow up. lol. I can get 6 CG's an a bunch of extra's to go with them for that price. I want them to fix the P85's, so I can buy some!! An anyone that pays attention to me, knows I buy extra's of everything, just for when I get a hair up my butt to build something new( or break it to see what it takes to break it, lol). Totally forgot I have three brand new 66cc's sitting in a cupboard till yesterday when I was cleaning the shop. I'll probably forget about them again and buy more 66cc and steel sleeves anyway. I still want some P85's to tinker around with though. At a minimum, I want three, one on hand and two in the cupboard for a rainy day build. An one more extra as a treat for someone else I know.
D
Deleted Member 4613
Guest
My God what a 2 stroke mess. Maybe the zeda 80 and PK's are the
only way to go for quality.
only way to go for quality.
I have no issue with reporting issues with this motor. I bought into it knowing I was going to walk into a mess to begin with and expected to spend a decent amount of time fixing the thing. I didn't quite expect it to be as bad as it was though.
I don't want to sound entirely doom and gloom because there is a large number of people with this engine out there that have had good luck with it so far. The potential to be a great engine is there, which I think is the most disappointing part about it.
I know that I definitely would not recommend anybody buying this kit unless they are capable and willing to go through the motor like I did. I also think the biggest weakness out of the entire thing is still the piston. Yes, out of all the issues I had, the piston is still the most consistent problem people with this engine are still having. In these two pictures you see the same failure, one with the old bushing, one is with the new needle bearing.
Then there are the ring land failures. I tried to dig up a few pictures but didn't have much luck I do have these two though, although one of them isn't very clear. Again, one a bushing motor and one a needle bearing motor, exact same failure. I know of at least two others with similar failures on needle bearing engines, including one with top ring and crown failure as well.
Then of course, as I mentioned before the stock carb tuning on the newest versions is rather lean. This particular gentlemen did zero modifications or upgrades of any kind. Said the engine showed no signs of air leaks and that he even tested for them before his first ride. Not even 100 miles on the engine.
This is the cylinder from that motor. Remember what I said about those sharp port edges? The second that piston overheated and expanded on the exhaust side, that exhaust port basically scraped off part of the piston. I'm not kidding when I say they are horribly finished.
The cylinder is the other half of the equation with the issues in my opinion. The liner they use is fine as far as I can tell, so at least it has that going for it.
I also think they really missed the mark with the cooling fins when they made this engine. They were already making a custom casting, so the fact that they didn't give this engine better/bigger/more fins is beyond me. These motors definitely run on the hot side. I have been tempted to follow the path of a couple others and buy a second cylinder and mill the top off to install a race head for an LD100 or the Smolik Performance head for a YD100.
I don't want to sound entirely doom and gloom because there is a large number of people with this engine out there that have had good luck with it so far. The potential to be a great engine is there, which I think is the most disappointing part about it.
I know that I definitely would not recommend anybody buying this kit unless they are capable and willing to go through the motor like I did. I also think the biggest weakness out of the entire thing is still the piston. Yes, out of all the issues I had, the piston is still the most consistent problem people with this engine are still having. In these two pictures you see the same failure, one with the old bushing, one is with the new needle bearing.
Then there are the ring land failures. I tried to dig up a few pictures but didn't have much luck I do have these two though, although one of them isn't very clear. Again, one a bushing motor and one a needle bearing motor, exact same failure. I know of at least two others with similar failures on needle bearing engines, including one with top ring and crown failure as well.
Then of course, as I mentioned before the stock carb tuning on the newest versions is rather lean. This particular gentlemen did zero modifications or upgrades of any kind. Said the engine showed no signs of air leaks and that he even tested for them before his first ride. Not even 100 miles on the engine.
This is the cylinder from that motor. Remember what I said about those sharp port edges? The second that piston overheated and expanded on the exhaust side, that exhaust port basically scraped off part of the piston. I'm not kidding when I say they are horribly finished.
The cylinder is the other half of the equation with the issues in my opinion. The liner they use is fine as far as I can tell, so at least it has that going for it.
I also think they really missed the mark with the cooling fins when they made this engine. They were already making a custom casting, so the fact that they didn't give this engine better/bigger/more fins is beyond me. These motors definitely run on the hot side. I have been tempted to follow the path of a couple others and buy a second cylinder and mill the top off to install a race head for an LD100 or the Smolik Performance head for a YD100.
Oh, trust me, there have been way more than 19 reviews on that engine kit. Bicycle-Engines only shows the 4 and 5 star reviews. I know because I left a 3 star review, and there are a few people on the facebook group that also left bad reviews. None of us show up on their website. They police their reviews so they can sucker other people into spending way too much on a poor quality kit.
Karl Snarl
Well-Known Member
CDH sells the LD-100 head cheaper.I have no issue with reporting issues with this motor. I bought into it knowing I was going to walk into a mess to begin with and expected to spend a decent amount of time fixing the thing. I didn't quite expect it to be as bad as it was though.
I don't want to sound entirely doom and gloom because there is a large number of people with this engine out there that have had good luck with it so far. The potential to be a great engine is there, which I think is the most disappointing part about it.
I know that I definitely would not recommend anybody buying this kit unless they are capable and willing to go through the motor like I did. I also think the biggest weakness out of the entire thing is still the piston. Yes, out of all the issues I had, the piston is still the most consistent problem people with this engine are still having. In these two pictures you see the same failure, one with the old bushing, one is with the new needle bearing.
Then there are the ring land failures. I tried to dig up a few pictures but didn't have much luck I do have these two though, although one of them isn't very clearn. Again, one a bushing motor and one a needle bearing motor, exact same failure. I know of at least two others with similar failures on needle bearing engines, including one with top ring and crown failure as well.
Then of course, as I mentioned before the stock carb tuning on the newest versions is rather lean. This particular gentlemen did zero modifications or upgrades of any kind. Said the engine showed no signs of air leaks and that he even tested for them before his first ride. Not even 100 miles on the engine.
This is the cylinder from that motor. Remember what I said about those sharp port edges? The second that piston overheated and expanded on the exhaust side, that exhaust port basically scraped off part of the piston. I'm not kidding when I say they are horribly finished.
The cylinder is the other half of the equation with the issues in my opinion. The liner they use is fine as far as I can tell, so at least it has that going for it.
I also think they really missed the mark with the cooling fins when they made this engine. They were already making a custom casting, so the fact that they didn't give this engine better/bigger/more fins is beyond me. These motors definitely run on the hot side. I have been tempted to follow the path of a couple others and buy a second cylinder and mill the top off to install a race head for an LD100 or the Smolik Performance head for a YD100.
I will bet that If you ever decide to go into business re-building/re-engineering these kit motors, That you are going to have a hell of a time keeping up with the orders Karl...lol...At least folks would know they will get quality and not hit and miss results...lol.
