Stir the Pot

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Barry, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Barry

    Barry Member

    I just read the following ad in the Corpus Christi Craig's list and I'm torn between a retaliation reply or just not stir the pot hoping he goes away. Whaddaya think?

    motor cycle engine on a bycicle? - $1 (cc)


  2. bluegoatwoods

    bluegoatwoods Well-Known Member

    Well.....I'm not too clear on who's saying what. But I take it that the part of your post in caps is the craigslist post and that you're quoting this guy there? That would seem to make sense.

    In that case, this guy is pretty much a troll. He's just wanting to start an argument or he's declaring his 'sophisticated' views and will have nothing but scorn for differing views.

    And, of course, feeding trolls is a losing game. Still, I'll sometimes argue with them if only because I can't always stand by while someone spouts idiocy.
  3. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    His wording is a bit strong in certain ways, but I can't disagree with him on the subject of brakes. Though I've never had an accident due to rim brakes (what I'm assuming he means by "bicycle brakes"), they are definitely not the best choice for a motorized bicycle. I always had problems with the pads. Soft ones stop good but wear too fast. Hard ones last longer, but scratch the rim, make the rim hot which can blow out a tire, and suck in the rain. I switched to a front drum over a year and a half ago, and I can definitely say that anything is better than rim brakes. Now the part about lightweight contraptions is debatable. Some people swear by steel frames, others think aluminum is just fine. I will only build on steel frames, but that's my personal preference and I also weigh in excess of 250 lbs. But I think if you get in a serious accident, it won't matter what kind of frame you're on, cause you're effed either way.
  4. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Rim brakes are a suicidal concept on a motorized bicycle.
    Sticking your finger in a power point with the switch in an unknown position is a safer health option than riding a motorized bicycle fitted with rim brakes.
  5. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Though disc may be better, you are dead wrong in your assertion that rim brakes aren't enough, and the above example is SLIGHTLY overstating things, may as well put nazi in there somewhere.Not trolling, just saying; prove it to yourself, do a mass poll on the forums you belong, and find the ratio of disc to everything else, then the ratio of accidents/near-misses/deaths that can be put to not using disc, you'll probably find a small minority have (or ever will) use disc, and they have been (and will be) just fine.
    To the OP, screw the turdo, I half think he's one of those crap "hybike" salesmen, and if he ain't, he doesn't need to know of the benefits of MAB, we have an oasis that many thirsty fools pass up,... good riddance.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  6. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    :tooth: i can't remember the last time i "slightly" overstated a subject, because i don't do anything in a "slightly" manner. Now if you said i "greatly" overstated things, you would be much closer to the truth.
  7. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Until they come up with the "sarcastica" font, my version of font tonality is one or two words in caps.Think about it, unless someone is bombing lonnnng hills, or doing a heavy haul like you (again down hills) there's no need for disc, any good brake set-up will lock them up.As a kid we bombed long hills with BMX & Bendix and crap 10 speeds with crap calipers, in the drops, going 50+ with/in traffic, used the brakes sparingly and lived to tell the tales: no helmets, no disc, no injuries.
  8. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Well-Known Member

    35-40MPH ?? :eek:
    COOOL I never knew about this but now I've read a craigslist ad' I want to buy a motorized bike too!! :devilish:

    That's called a backfire. :p

    Have to say though I've been clocked (by a following car) at over 45MPH on my human/gravity powered 24" wheeled BMX that I call my downhill street bike. It has Odyssey Evolver brakes, which are a high quality U-brake (rim brake). I don't repeatedly heat the Cool Stop Salmon pads and the wheel rim though: Downhill streets here last maybe 1 min., and I prefer to brake as little as possible anyway, that's the whole idea lol. Oh and I wouldn't neccesarily refer to it as "safe riding" lol. :helmet:

    BUT the effectiveness of ANY brake is limited by the traction of the tyre on the road surface anyway! :dunce:
  9. butre

    butre Well-Known Member

    Forget crap calipers, I grew up in the "ram your chucks between the tire and the fork" period when everyone was riding bikes with the front brake removed so we could 360 the handlebars and the rear coaster converted to a poor man's freewheel. I remember outrunning traffic on good downhills and never died doing that.

    Rim brakes are working just fine on my bike, I'm able to lock the wheels and there isn't any unusual wear.
  10. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Well-Known Member

    Modern caliper brakes are far better than they used to be, even ones made for road bikes (I still prefer V's if the bike will take them). A hole in the head solves barspin/tailwhip issue.. Either use a dedicated hole in the head bolt or drill the headset tensioning bolt, or just remove the tensioning bolt after tightening up the stem pinch bolts. Can be used with disc or rim brakes. I used to have a hydraulic disc brake routed that way just to avoid creasing the hose when I crashed, but since just routed normally to avoid bleeding the brake every time I swap out the fork, and the frustration/cost of hoses not coming off cleanly (ruining the lining) when disconnected. IMO it's not a bad idea to learn toe jam braking anyway just in case of emergency.
  11. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    never pulled off a good barspin... something to do with having the wrong forks i think... i ride what i find! holes in the stem didnt exist back when 10 speed was considered the ducks guts, and neither did oryg... :( but sometimes they come fitted to roadside rubbish :)

    they still MANUFACTURE bikes in certain countries with ROD BREAKS! can buy a kit on ebay!

    at least theres no cables to snap at awkward moments...been there, done that! need the right rims and theyre a :) to adjust correctly...

    what happened to magura hydraulics? only pathetic measly useless rim brakes, but they had enough power to crush standard rims with one finger... strangely, the brake of choice for monty, a reknowned trials bike manufacturer, the guy that started it all really. (i prefer cable operated discs over hydraulic. cables dont leak or need bleeding/flushing...)

    whats that hill in CA? um...something to do with grease or something? oh. yeah. repack mountain... coaster brakes reigned supreme. only the lil'uns ride with front brakes. wimps pftttt...

    iunno. can control a rear wheel skid. at least i can and most kids given a bike with rear brakes only.

    cant control a bike when the front brakes are so good they flick you off when you jam them on in an emergency... unless you come with wings in which case, why ride?


    stay in bed. even that has its dangers. in fact, you dont want to know how many people have died in bed. the figures are staggeringly large...

    application of toejam is found highly amusing by council workers that wield STOP signs...

    i even had a good giggle after i brushed myself off, despite having snapped my exhaust manifold off... he said i went about 5 metres before landing :) could have been 50 if id been facing the guard rail :( what a shame :(

    and it really destroys dunlop volleys :(
  12. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Well-Known Member

    I never really learned them properly either, though I was concentrating mostly on the downside tailwhip whatsit thingy when I was doing that sort of thing. I mostly used a longer than normal rear brake cable to keep things simple and cheap, couldn't afford a detangler so just had to spin the bars back to detangle after each (failed) attempt. Yes, a hole in the head only works with an aheadset, so there's a redundant bolt.. unless there's a hollow quill stem bolt but who's gonna try barspins on a quill stem bike (eek!) mind you people motorize quill stem bikes....

    They do, mostly for nostalgia I think, maybe for restoration work. There's certainly advantages and disadvantages to rod brakes over cable brakes. Motorcycles had them for the rear brake comparatively recently but then, they're foot pedal actuated..

    I think the problem was that they can crush standard rims! lol. Also they're very sensitive to deformations of the wheel rim, you need to have a perfectly true rim, no dents or bends, even more so than with conventional rim brakes. Also the rim gets dirtier than a disc..

    Stopping distance with a rear brake only could be three times what it would be with front and rear brakes. Skids ruin tyres anyway.

    It depends on how the bike is loaded, and how the bike is fitted for you. If you can get your centre of gravity in the right position you can do front wheel skids too! After some practise it becomes instinctual to shift your bodyweight back when you pull the front brake. I can't recall the last time my front brake flicked me OTB.

    Develop riding skills, stay alert, ride defensively, maintain your bike.

    I've front flipped over a car bonnet (aka hood!) after a good 20 metres of rear wheel off the ground toejam braking haha. I should have cleaned my rims better because I had a front brake but needed to toejam it as well.. mind you she shouldn't have pulled out into the bicycle lane and then stopped! :veryangry: The bike's front stuntpeg was left jammed into the wheel arch of the car. :p It wasnt' damaged though.. Hoffman Li'l Deebo- built like a tank. :D

    True, practising toejams does wear the sole of your shoe. Share a pair with a rider who rides with the opposite foot forward! :p
  13. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    excellent :) i like this kind of sensible argument debate whatever it is. much fodder :) not much to gripe about, just more fodder :)

    true. with experience/practise one can brake on a dime with no real issues. my concern is for the rider that only goes out occasionally, never has reason to slam them on and do a emergency stop, doesnt practise, so that when they do and arent quite prepared for the stopping power of discs... or good v-brakes - splat :) in that regard... skidding 15metres and sliding to the left, ending up in the grass is far nicer than braking 4 metres in a straight line and being stopped by that taxi...(or even landing in front of it!)

    i like doing screechies on my motorbike once the rear starts lookin due for a change... do it next time you come up to a pedestrian crossing and watch em scuttle and give you nasty looks despite stopping precisely 60 cm before the white line, if you get the chance ;)

    gets down to developing skills, something a lot of people are immune to in my experience... the real killer is the split second decision on which brake, how to brake... in fact, is braking even necessary? one reason motorcycle training, while hammering in the routine for safe fast braking, also made a point of not allowing one to "ride" the levers. fingers off!
    one...youre more prone to just grab a fist full of lever in an emergency, nasty.
    two, you might leave the other fingers on the bar...and not be able to squeeze the lever in far enough to stop fast enough, and also not be able to release those fingers to try again.
    third, the few brief moments in moving fingers off bar onto lever could be the few moments that the situation takes to change, and with no brakes but a bit of gas, you can get through...etc...

    this aint supercross, you arent on the ball all the time when commuting or touring or just toodling to the shops... fingers OFF!

    not to mention the fools that put brake levers etc in the most ridiculous locations. one person on here was suggesting placing his clutch on the top tube... now thats intuitive :wacko: at school i recall my friend always had a (in my mind) annoying habit of placing his levers almost above ones knuckles... he learnt the painful way :)

    ah, quill stems... yes, ive found roadside rubbish with the hollow quill. at least someone had the sense to make it m12x1 rather than standard m8...

    strange how simple ideas like the v-brake and the aheadset took so long to come about... and they arent exactly the kinds of technology that were restricted by lack of existing technology. just took.

    prattle prattle... :jester: the pot has been stirred!
  14. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Well-Known Member

    Me too, always good fun just chatting/prattling about our two-wheeled friends. :D

    You know, it's hard for me to even think of how less experienced or less skilled riders cope with good brakes.. being a cyclist for sooo many years (I daren't count!) the bike is like part of me, even though I switch between different bikes with different brakes and different tyres quite regularly it's never something I really think about, it's all just done by feel.

    Ha! I don't brake for pedestrian crossings! ;) I coast from a distance, to time all lights and junctions perfectly.. okay not always, lol, but I'm really annoyed at myself when I get it wrong and have to stop so I try to always get it just right. I still rarely brake though (as I'm still pedal powered only) as I'm riding on the coast mostly where it's flat ground. Don't worry though, I won't forget how. :p Sometimes I brake lightly in the last few metres before my front door, but I pull the brakes more when I'm inside my home just to test the brakes and make sure they still work correctly. :whistling:

    I don't know if I could get used to motorcycle/3-finger brake levers, it'd feel all wrong. I like to brake with one finger (middle), two at most. I always ride with my fingers off the levers. Supercross I'd ride off the levers too, as I cannot jump with fingers on levers. Even if I need to be on the brakes right away after landing a jump I just have to put up with that, I just can't pull up the same without gripping the bars with the whole hand.. I only ride the levers during the worst most frantic moments of technical downhill.

    LOL do you think I can put a throttle lever on the end of my aerobars? :jester: haha. I am actually planning to do that one day, just not on a public road and only for a top speed run, then it's back to being sensible. :) okay.. semi-sensible. :p

    Yes it is very strange how the space shuttle pre-dates the aheadset, v-brakes, etc.. and in some areas we seem to be actually going backwards.. just to save someone some money I suppose. Exposed cam quick releases are my latest pet hate, since my last three bikes came with these fitted. Worst idea ever. Ever!

    Indeed... pot, stirred.. sounds like I should pour some more tea. :)
  15. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member


    As i've mentioned before, a friend of mine works as a highway patrol police officer.
    To get into highway patrol you are required to pass a much higher level driving test.

    He mentioned that ABS not only increases stopping distances but also increases nose to tail crashes because when people need to panic brake, they release their foot from the brake pedal when the pedal vibrates and the car shakes.

    This exact scenario happened to me the first time i owned a car with ABS, though thankfully i managed to swerve onto the side of the road when the brake pedal pulsated like crazy, and i took my foot off the brake pedal.
    After that experience i spent time in low traffic locations in early hours of the morning and over various road surfaces, practicing panic stops and training myself to swerve around objects as the brake pedal and car pulsated and shook like crazy.

    It was surprising just how much practice i needed to stop myself releasing the brake pedal when it shook like mad, and to still keep concentration on steering the car around a predetermined point on the road whilst the brake pedal and car were shaking like nothing else.

    I wonder how many people give any thought to practicing braking skills in a car, let alone even worrying about learning the braking skills and braking capability of their bicycle in a panic situation.