My Phantom Experience.

[ImpulseRocket]

If you're ever worried if the adaptor is going to slip, you can always use a roll pin to pin it.

I had considered that, or some other method of retention. My Phantom definitely has more compression to it, but with the 36 tooth rear sprocket it doesn't have quite as much force being applied to it axially. Granted, my compression is still only going to increase as the rings seat, but so far so good. I have a ton of faith in that Loctite 638. It's some insanely strong stuff and designed specifically for this type of application. I have witnessed it hold bearing races still when the bearings failed and locked up under forces that my bike couldn't create in its wildest dreams. That said, only time will tell. I have no problem drilling a little hole for a roll pin if needed.

 

[Chainlube]

I had considered that, or some other method of retention. My Phantom definitely has more compression to it, but with the 36 tooth rear sprocket it doesn't have quite as much force being applied to it axially. Granted, my compression is still only going to increase as the rings seat, but so far so good. I have a ton of faith in that Loctite 638. It's some insanely strong stuff and designed specifically for this type of application. I have witnessed it hold bearing races still when the bearings failed and locked up under forces that my bike couldn't create in its wildest dreams. That said, only time will tell. I have no problem drilling a little hole for a roll pin if needed.

Most adaptor failures are on first start up when the force from the clutch/engine is transferred to the wheel.

 

[Karl Snarl]

Yeah, and all out speed isn't really what I am after. 50mph on a bicycle, while it sounds cool, is also a bit beyond my comfort zone. I have motorcycles for that.

I have heavily considered the Enviolo DuVinci 380 CVP (CVT) hub. They are quite hefty and there are versions rated for quite heavy loads/power. Cost wise they are kind of in the middle between affordable and "just buy a motorcycle" and offer a ratio range of .5 under drive to 1.9 overdrive.

I forget all of my gear combinations I worked out to get my "cadence" at the crank set, but I do remember it being 190 rpm at 7500 engine RPM. The drive range on the CVT using a 22 tooth drive sprocket means it has a range of a cassette similar to a 12-44, and with a drive ratio of 1.63:1 with the crank set using a 36 tooth sprocket gives me the equivalent underdrive ratio of a direct drive rear sprocket with 115 teeth (top speed at 7500rpm would be 12.8mph). The maximum overdrive ratio would be equivalent to that of a 32 tooth direct drive, giving a speed of 46mph at 7500 RPM.

Obviously you could play with the drive and driven sprockets to increase or decrease relative ratios as you saw fit. Jump up to a 2:1 on the chainring and rear sprocket and the drive equivalents go to 95 on the underdrive and 26 on the over, still giving great hill climbing ability, but the option to choose lower RPM for higher speed cruising, if that is your thing.

I hear bad things about cvt hub and motor bikes. Dog ears on the sturmeys do much better and are tougher. Reason I say 3 speed, because the gears are tougher. More gears in it, the smaller they get. An I know sturmeys have been proven over and over to handle the loads without failing. I've read a lot of failures on the cvt hubs, and they cost a lot more too.

 

[ImpulseRocket]

I hear bad things about cvt hub and motor bikes. Dog ears on the sturmeys do much better and are tougher. Reason I say 3 speed, because the gears are tougher. More gears in it, the smaller they get. An I know sturmeys have been proven over and over to handle the loads without failing. I've read a lot of failures on the cvt hubs, and they cost a lot more too.

That's interesting to hear. I was trying to research as much as I could before I made any choices and their 380 CVT has nothing but praise with electric bikes. They even have a model intended for electric cargo bikes with a really high torque rating. It's really expensive at $500, but it's rated to 73lb-ft of force. I do like the Sturmey 3 speed though as it's a fifth the price, comes with a thumb shifter, and the gear spread is almost perfect for replicating 3 different sprocket options. A 56, a 44, and a 36. I may just have to build a wheel set off to the side with one of those out back and a front Dynamo hub.

Most adaptor failures are on first start up when the force from the clutch/engine is transferred to the wheel.

That makes me feel a lot better about mine then.

 

[Karl Snarl]

That's interesting to hear. I was trying to research as much as I could before I made any choices and their 380 CVT has nothing but praise with electric bikes. They even have a model intended for electric cargo bikes with a really high torque rating. It's really expensive at $500, but it's rated to 73lb-ft of force. I do like the Sturmey 3 speed though as it's a fifth the price, comes with a thumb shifter, and the gear spread is almost perfect for replicating 3 different sprocket options. A 56, a 44, and a 36. I may just have to build a wheel set off to the side with one of those out back and a front Dynamo hub.

That makes me feel a lot better about mine then.

If you use the cvt as a transmission, instead of hub, they handle better. They still fail just from pedaling though. An the sturmey system has been in use for decades, been perfected. Proven tough as a MB hub as well. I'd let them perfect these cvt's, another 20 years lol, and then use one. To expensive to wonder if you got a " we need to sell these out cause they suck" model. I've heard not to use the 5 speed sturmeys, smaller gears. Only heard one bad about the 3 speed sturmey, and it was because the guy didn't adjust as the cable stretched, cause his problem and eventually burning up his gear set. Other than that they have been bullet proof.

The 3 speed sturmey is very similar to the old in hub motorcycle gear system.

 

[DieselTech]

That's interesting to hear. I was trying to research as much as I could before I made any choices and their 380 CVT has nothing but praise with electric bikes. They even have a model intended for electric cargo bikes with a really high torque rating. It's really expensive at $500, but it's rated to 73lb-ft of force. I do like the Sturmey 3 speed though as it's a fifth the price, comes with a thumb shifter, and the gear spread is almost perfect for replicating 3 different sprocket options. A 56, a 44, and a 36. I may just have to build a wheel set off to the side with one of those out back and a front Dynamo hub.

That makes me feel a lot better about mine then.

The nuvinci 380 hub is known to fail under motorbike conditions, they claim the cvt oil in them gets hot & turns milky white & the hub starts to fail shifting or working all together. The sturmey archer 3 speed hub is best, but the nexus 5 speed is next runner up. I've done a little bit of research on that particular subject on IGH for motorbike use.

 

[Karl Snarl]

The nuvinci 380 hub is known to fail under motorbike conditions, they claim the cvt oil in them gets hot & turns milky white & the hub starts to fail shifting or working all together. The sturmey archer 3 speed hub is best, but the nexus 5 speed is next runner up. I've done a little bit of research on that particular subject on IGH for motorbike use.

I have a bunch of 3 speed sturmeys laying around, probably 5 of them. All brand new. Just been to lazy to lace them. Probably stop at a bike shop and get them laced up, cause I'm lazy!!! lol

 

[ImpulseRocket]

Thanks for all the information fellas! It's kind of annoying trying to find detailed info like this when you search. You find about 20% of it and then the rest just gets lost in the mess that is the internet.

 

[Chainlube]

@GreasyChris has a 5 speed IGH on his bike, maybe he will pop by and let you know how it's working out for him.

 

[Karl Snarl]

Thanks for all the information fellas! It's kind of annoying trying to find detailed info like this when you search. You find about 20% of it and then the rest just gets lost in the mess that is the internet.

I just threw money at this hobby till I found what I like and what works. lol. I like to save people money, I already spent it. lol