Phoenix Police wanted to ticket me!

[SimpleSimon]

As the craigslist listing reads, it is somewhat confusing. It is, however, clearly an e-bike, not a gas power assisted bike. PhxProduce, you need to update your listing and remove the 50cc motor claim, replace it with the wattage/voltage of the electric motor that is the prime mover on the bicycle. I am unsure of the allowable horsepower/wattage rating of a motor for an e-bike in Arizona - in most states it is 1 HP = 750 watts, max.

 

[SpikeTimmons]

Lets start at the beginning here. First off, the police are trained the WE the people are the enemy. Second, they will pull you over and try to ticket you becasue they are TRAINED TO DO SO. Most police won't mess with this kinda stuff. But there are the few that will try to make you think you are wrong. I told the officers in my case the law. They told me I was wrong and ignorant of the law. The fact is this: If your state will not give you a motorcycle title for your vehicle then the police cannot call it a motorcycle. Or ticket you as if yu are on a motorcycle, like they tried to do to me. The local police department policy conflicts with the BMV rules of titling and so does the code. If your in Indiana you can operate any 2 to 3 wheeled vehicle under 50cc no matter what it looks like or if it has gears. No liscence required.
Another post in this thread said that in florida under 50cc is legal. I have to question that because any vehicle with it's own power of transportation meaning an engine or a motor is considered a motor vehicle in florida. And if you can't opperate it on a suspended liscence then you must have to have it registerd and plated. And that is from case law I found while resreaching for my court case.
Have fun and be careful. No matter what one cop tells you another may have a wild bug up his arse that day. And you will be in court. When an officer stops you. All you should say is: Am I under arrest officer?, then I'm free to go? It is your fourth, and fith ammendment right not to give them any information. Because they can and will use it against you in court.

 

[fredie]

whats this all about

 

[fredie]

so what happened in court

 

[SpikeTimmons]

so what happened in court

I filed a motion to dismiss, at the motions hearing the judge said my government generated documents from the clerk and the BMV were hearsay.
She broke the law by doing so. Basicaly they tried to get me to take a public defender, and even had one waiting in the wings that they had already set up without my knowledge or consent. They do this because they know that if you do not sign the paper before you get locked up, then they cant finger print you or hold you more than 72 hrs. They give the public defender power of attorney so he signs you into jail.
When I appeared in court for jury verification, I filed a motion for discovery and stated that I wanted the video, audio etc... and if they didn't give me all info being used against me I would file the appropriate charges against the prosecutor. The judge went off, and tried to make me feel like I was wrong. I just stood ther smiling while she was screaming at me. I left the court room and the last thing the judge said was. "Mr TIMMONS YOU HAVE PUT YOURSELF IN A VERY PRECARIOUS POSITION BY TAKNING THIS CASE YOURSELF. That was at 11 am, at 1:30 they mailed the letter stating they had dropped the case on motion of the state. They realized I was letting them dig a whole. And I was getting ready to burry them in their own bs, because they broke all of their own rules.
In the letter they sent. It said I appeared with council.... I had no council...accept the public defender they had given me with out my knowledge or consent.

 

[fredie]

so you stuck it up those *******s . lol good one

 

[SpikeTimmons]

I was going to file charges if they would have taken it to trial. I still could but it's not worth wasting my time for the next few years. This time I let it slide...and probably shouldn't have. Next time I won't be so nice. I was unaware of alot of things before I researched all the stuff... like we all have the right to travel freely. Given to us by our creator, and guaranteed by the constitution. But our parents unknowingly entered us all into a contract with the state by our birth certificates. And we are human resources being traded through bonds in the world market.
If you go to court and say your name for the record you have put yourself in their jurisdiction. And they can use the admiralty laws against you. The constitution says they can try us in two juridictions. Common law, which is the juridiction they are supposed to try us in. And maritime admiralty venue, which they can only use if there is an international contract in dispute. Remember what I said before about your birth certificate being a contract. That's how the have us all roped in. As soon as you open your mouth to make a plea, you just entered another contract, that they are not going to tell you about. And you put yourself in their jurisdiction.
Here is a good site for info on some stuff like this http://usavsus.info/ I have some links on my site as well. http://str-racing.tk
Some of you from Pheonix will know this name. Jack Mclamb he explains this very well here http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/right2travel.shtml
Do some research and you weill see what I have seen. It's not pretty so be prepared to read things you never thouyght you would in most folks cases.

 

[fgkitkojr]

Did you ever get a reply to the email you sent to the Phoenix Chief of Police? If so, may I please have a copy of it?

Thanks

Frank

 

[KCvale]

I was going to file charges if they would have taken it to trial. I still could but it's not worth wasting my time for the next few years. This time I let it slide...and probably shouldn't have. Next time I won't be so nice. I was unaware of alot of things before I researched all the stuff... like we all have the right to travel freely. Given to us by our creator, and guaranteed by the constitution. But our parents unknowingly entered us all into a contract with the state by our birth certificates. And we are human resources being traded through bonds in the world market.
If you go to court and say your name for the record you have put yourself in their jurisdiction. And they can use the admiralty laws against you. The constitution says they can try us in two juridictions. Common law, which is the juridiction they are supposed to try us in. And maritime admiralty venue, which they can only use if there is an international contract in dispute. Remember what I said before about your birth certificate being a contract. That's how the have us all roped in. As soon as you open your mouth to make a plea, you just entered another contract, that they are not going to tell you about. And you put yourself in their jurisdiction.
Here is a good site for info on some stuff like this http://usavsus.info/ I have some links on my site as well. http://str-racing.tk
Some of you from Pheonix will know this name. Jack Mclamb he explains this very well here http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/right2travel.shtml
Do some research and you weill see what I have seen. It's not pretty so be prepared to read things you never thouyght you would in most folks cases.

Since I can't seem to find my topic about AZ MB law this seems appropriate enough, it was started nearly a decade ago and the quoted recent post was to the 5 year old last topic post before it.

I refer to this proposed change to AZ law and my petition to help here.
http://kcsbikes.com/AZRS28-2516.htm#statute

It is with great pleasure and pride I announce that my little crusade to re-define AZ law regarding motor assisted bicycles is now officially 'born'.

For those that haven't been following along or read the Arizona Bill cartoonish educational document I refer to often about what it takes to get any State law action even considered has to happen first, allow me to recap.

A sponsor and a few procedural steps are needed until it gets to the magical First Real 'Birth' Step, that being it actually being assigned an official HR Bill Number.

With that allow me to introduce you to the birth of AZ HR2177
http://www.azleg.gov//FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/51leg/1r/bills/hb2177o.asp&Session_ID=110

At the moment he is a tiny ugly little sucker, not much more than a place holder text for exactly how everything MB related should be worded in one all encompassing statute, and I know there are many differing opinions about them, but nothing happens without the'magic bill number' that has to be 'born' in the House in the first 30 days of the legislative session or tough luck without a special session.

Welcome to Arizona 'Little Bill 2177', I hope to help you grow and become a big strong Arizona Law that could be a model for other states handling motor assisted bicycle laws, and we now have all year to raise you proper in the right houses and committees to move you along.

If you read AZ Bill you will see this is only step 1 of many steps but not just the hardest to achieve, it is the most crucial one.

Yes, this could all go horribly wrong and I could end up killing the community I am trying to help, but one thing is for sure, I got this far and I'm not giving up or going down without a fight or a brawl if need be now.

I am no Mr. Smith goes to Washington but I'll keep doing what I can ;-}

 

[fgkitkojr]

Experiences contacting the Phoenix PD, Peoria PD, Glendale PD, and Maricopa SO

I asked my cousin, an attorney, to contact the Phoenix PD, the Peoria PD, Glendale PD, and the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office attaching a copy of the Arizona Revised Statute Title 28 regarding transportation laws and asking for their local laws and how they were affected by the state statute. He received phone calls back from Phoenix, Peoria, and MCSO that were all 100% positive. The only agency that had a local city code was Peoria and after some back and forth conversation with that agency (I even had to email them 11 pictures of my bike showing the safety equipment, etc.) they eventually agreed I was well within my rights to ride my motor assisted bicycle legally. One thing they all had in common was the statement to “stay off the sidewalk “ while the motor was running and to keep my speed under 20 MPH. The most positive response was from a Lieutenant with the Phoenix PD.

To date, We’ve still had no response from the Glendale, AZ Police Department. We also received a positive email from Michael Sanders at the Arizona Department of Transportation. I have all of the correspondence, laws, and city codes stored in a .PDF format on my computer.

I just don’t want to start a ride to Phoenix from Peoria and find out I have to pedal through Glendale or certain local jurisdiction’s just to get to the next city.

I feel it’s kind of like a helmet law that varies from state to state. Also, from what I understand, the State statute for the most part should supersede any local laws pertaining to our machines. Peoria City Code defines my bike as a “motorized toy”. I did order 3”X5” decals for the sides of my motor that clearly show “48CC”. THIS IS IMPORTANT! As we all know, displacement can be measured in many different ways so at this point in time, I decided that 43, 48, 50, 66, or 80 cc’s. came down to “splitting hairs” so any bike I ride is going to be a 48cc!

KC,….If you could shoot me an email at corkysmotobike@gmail.com I would like to email you all of the data, correspondence, and all other research I have done so far so you can add them to what you have.

One thing we have accomplished, we went from an original response from the Peoria PD stating “it’s illegal, don’t ride it” to a positive response stating you’re right, ride safe. So now I’m not afraid to motor out of Peoria to visit my sister in Sun City!

Attached are the photos the Peoria PD requested. The only other mod I plan at this time is a suspension seat post with a 20mm setback I ordered online.

PS. I also carry copies of all the laws, codes, and correspondence in a Ziploc bag in one of my saddlebags.