Cleaner burning 2 stroke engines...

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by javelina1, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. javelina1

    javelina1 Member

  2. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    And I used to joke about owning a fuel injected weed eater.
    I never thought the technology would reach small engines.
    Now is seems the joke is on me......
  3. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    It is sad that emission standards are going to be so tight that we need EFI on small engines. The joke is on us, the consumer.

    A fuel injected weed eater, string trimmer, or lawn mower will be much more expensive, heavier and probably a maintenance nightmare after storage in the off season.

    What will happen in 2015 is that gas powered power equipment will only be purchased by professionals because of cost. The consumer market will be all electric.
  4. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    and the problem with that would be what exactly?
  5. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    With current technology, electric power equipment sucks (for lack of a better word). My parents gave me a cordless electric string trimmer and it does not have the power to cut through thick weeds, and one charge is not enough to cover my property. It cost more than a 25cc gas trimmer that kicks butt in performance.

    Electric lawn mowers are also impractical for me. Cordless mowers don't have the runtime (and are expensive) and corded mowers are ridiculous for anything more than a 25x25 lot. (which is push mower territory) I've got a small riding mower and a few 21" power mowers. (two strokes and four stokes)

    I own an electric pressure washer and a gas powered unit. I don't have to tell you that the gas powered unit is more convenient, more powerful, and a better value.

    I do own electric hedge trimmers, but I use a small $99 gasoline generator to run them rather than a 100+ ft. extension cord.

    The new emission standards will also affect motorized bikes. Say goodbye to affordable engines. Some folks will cheer when the happy time is extinct, but when a 4 stroke FI Honda 50cc engine costs $600 (for just the engine) they might not be so happy.

    Using the excuse of clean air, the government is slowly taking away everything that is fun. As boats, ATV's, motorcycles, jet ski's, snowmobiles - all of this cool stuff will become more expensive and out of the reach of the middle class.

    Back in the 60's, what households owned power mowers or a portable generator? The upper class folks did. The lower classes pushed their mowers around, and watched their food spoil during power outages. Now, the lower income folks have power mowers (and the upper class folks have a paid lawn service) and access to affordable portable generators to ride out power failures.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  6. wheelbender6

    wheelbender6 Well-Known Member

    If i have to add one of those to my China motor one day to keep it legal, I'll do it.
    It still beats the alternatives, in my opinion.
  7. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    You won't be required to do anything. The manufacturer will be responsible for making sure that their engines are compliant with new regulations. The Happy Time engine will become extinct. This is fact. So get them while you can, and stock up on parts.

    My worry is that your string trimmer, lawn mower, leaf blower or portable generator will need to be as complicated as a current Evinrude outboard, or fuel injected sport bike. For now, small motorcycles are still carbureted. They will cost hundreds more if they need fuel injection and computerized engine management to pass emissions.
  8. mattysids

    mattysids Member

    well i read up on that article

    "The MCZ33812 is a commercial grade device available now for production at a suggested resale price of $1.70 (USD)"

    this seems to be the central controller of the system, and that's pretty cheap if you ask me

    is it the sensors and other devices that add a significant cost?
  9. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    The chip is the least of the expenses.

    Fuel injector, fuel pump, alternator/regulator capable of running the fuel management system, etc.
  10. mattysids

    mattysids Member

    yeah that's what i was worried about.

    we can only hope for a miracle battery to arrive

    the only thing even remotely promising i've seen is the use of ultra-capacitors in small power tools such as power screwdrivers that charge within a minute and will run for about 20 minutes of use (or something like that)
  11. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    it's really starting to make me sick !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Hearing all these idoits talk about electric power being green !!!!
    IT"S NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!! HELLO !!!!!!!!!!!
    last time i looked coal was not green !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Gas is greener than coal !!!!!!
    coal has mercury in it, gets in our lakes kills fish , you eat it !!!!
    How is that GREEN !!!!!!!
    also the batterys with all kinds of bad stuff in them will contaninate the earth for 10,0000 years !!!!!!

    So run out and buy that Chevy Volt for $ 40.000 becuse .........

    ELECTRICITY IS GREEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GM is going to go down the tubes again, Wonder if there will be bailout 2.0
    coming soon to a bank near you......

  12. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Yep - green light bulbs with mercury. Green lawn mowers with lead-acid batteries.
  13. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    ROFL ......not going to get into i see its of luck with your two strokes in the future anywayz'll need it :p

  14. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    ROFL right back at ya! Of course you don't want to discuss it because you have no valid arguments for the merits of electric powered lawn equipment other than they are supposedly "green".

    Until we find inexpensive and clean ways of producing AND storing electricity, the internal combustion engine (2 or 4 stroke, wankel, whatever) will be the dominant source of power. That is, until the greenies regulate the ICE out of existence.

    Heck, our county golf courses ditched their electric golf carts in favor of gas powered carts.
  15. seanhan

    seanhan Member

    Not trying to start WWIII

    Just gets to me all of the green stuff nowadays....
    Dont get me wrong !!! Iam all for it !!!!!!
    but it just seems to be a marketing issue since very little humans do is really green!!!!

    So if you say it's green it will sell.....

    Let really do somthing about it and stop talking green to make ourselves feel less guilty for distroying our planet !!!!

    We need a Manhatten project for electricity ...
    The goverement need to get the best minds and put billions into it
    if we can produce electricity without pollotion of any kind and produce enough and store it.. We could all drive electric vehicles.

    The sun shows the most potential, its renewable at least for 500,000 more years till it burns out. it's predictable, The energy generated buy the sun in one day could power the whole world for a year. If we can store it walla problem solved. There some scientest working on a giant battery the size of a city block the used crushed sea shells and water to store a giant battery. Right now in Saudi arabia they are building a complete city the is renewable, from scratch !!! We can learn from them !!! they have plenty of oil but still are concerned about the future of energy.
  16. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    "Available now for production at a suggested resale price of $1.70 (USD) in 10,000-unit quantities."

    Do you want to buy 10,000 of them to get that price? ($17,000 worth)
    The technonoly may be here, but the affordable price point is not quite here yet.

    I would not mind a fuel injected weed eater, Grube 2-stroke, or DAX Titan if it will only cost $50.00 or so for the whole conversion package.
    I would certainly get better fuel economy out of it, and because of that it probobly would pay for itself in a few tank fulls.
  17. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    HAHAHA yup yup thats it got it in one...:: rolls eyez:: its obvious by your mentality it would be pointless even trying to educate you and the other like minded members here that are oh so convinced electric is so much more inferior...:) Best of luck running you stinking p i ss poor powered china gurl motors then hehehe ...In ~10 years time i forsee emission control laws so tight you wont be able to fart in the open air...And your know the BEST part noddy, it don't matter what your view is on it or where you OR I for that matter stand, we WILL see electric take over in many many areas in the very near future like it or not :) Stockpile your stinking china gurls wont do you an ounce of good, it willbe plain as day to the LAW they don't meet emissions as they leave a traile of smoke and stink in their wake best of luck keeping the bikes on the'll need it HAHAHA..Me i'll happily crusie by in i wont...i wouldnt have been behind you in th first place :p :p :p
    All jokes and snipes aside IF i were you I wouldnt be overly concerned buddy, advancements in technology is a good thing, AT LEAST these little motors will have some design changes for the first time since...well...their invention! If your honest you would HAVE to admit the perfoamce of a china gurl is nothing but pathetic for a 50cc engine considering 15hp is possible from a a sub 50cc motor~ With some improvements You might actually get something that resembles "performance" from the lil motors ...

    Have a nice day :)
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  18. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    This is not about what you call "china gurl" engines, this is about ALL small utility engines and engines used in receational vehicles like PWC, ATV's, etc.

    Once again, as usual, people like you use overly restrictive regulations to get what you want. You basically have to regulate small ICE's out of existence to cram expensive, underpowered, cr@ppy electric powered things down consumers throats.

    If electric lawn mowers were so good, they would sell on their own merits and wouldn't need the elimination of other alternatives to make them viable.

    You know I'm right, and you've got absolutely nothing to counter the facts that I have placed before you. All you can do is attack me personally.
  19. jimraysr

    jimraysr Member

    Freescale Small Engine Controller

    Our son-in-law is an engineer with Freescale locally. His specialty is automotive products and these would be his area.

    Not sure this is one of his products, but all the engineers seem to get into all of their products one way or an other.

    Anyway I emailed him regarding oil injection control for 2 strokes? The mechanical oil injector on my 1970 Yamaha 175 trail really cleaned it up over the prior engines that were pre-mix. I would guess it is still plenty dirty. The stroke of the oil pump was controlled by the throttle position. As I recall the mix could go as high as 250:1?

    Will advise if I learn anything.

  20. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    No i think your wrong but as i said its pointless debating with someone with your attitude, you LOVE your ICE and wont consider any alternative can be as good as it...fair enough your entitled to your opinion, i think your wrong we shall agree to disagree.

    I'll put this too you though, If small ICE motors are so great why do electric motors of comparable size have more Torque AND thats instantaneousness maximum torque? be very interesting to hear how you turn this around....

    What!@!#@!@>>> goodness me cant take light hearted banter i see..need a tissue ?

    Have a nice day...

    Last edited: Aug 31, 2009