bill green
Member
Hi Dan Very nice job on tooling....Bill
Inside the H crankcase side cover
- Thread starter Traveler
- Start date
Hi everyone,
I have two of the measuring tools, one original and one aftermarket. Know the shim on the vintage motor is very important. A little bad advice can go a long way to destroying a vintage motor. Many "so called experts" don't have a clue about the different crankshafts, getting oil to the needle bearing, and the different tolerances between the various motors. Some try to apply information used on other brands of motors, and don't have the correct information on the original Whizzer motors.
The information to get the correct lube to the side cover bearing has been covered many times via service bullentins.
Over the last week I have received many phone calls about rebuilding vintage motors, and I am shocked with the amount of bogus information from people who are trying to thrust themselves into the class of Whizzer experts.
To aid the few that are trying to appear as experts please write down the following.
NOT all motors use the same crankshaft side to side play. The "H", "J" and early "300" motors should be .010" ~ .012", but the maximum should never exceed .015". The late "300", "500", "300S", "600S" and the "700" motors should be set at .002" ~ .009" and the maximum shouldn't ever exceed .011".
In order to aid additional oil supply to the needle bearing the original Whizzer company published a service bullentin on November 24, 1950 with the following information "To improve lubrication of the bearing the crankshaft should be drilled as illustrated, using a 17/64" drill." This means drill a hole from the end of the crankshaft to the center to allow oil to travel from the center of the throws to the needle bearing. All later model crankshafts, including the needle bearing crankshaft had this hole. Another Whizzer service bullentin Volume 2 #10 sent the following information to the dealer network "Field complaints have disclosed that many crankshaft needle bearings show excessive wear, dryness and rust after a comparatively short time of service. To correct this condition two oil grooves on the needle bearing boss have been provided at the factory. "The fix is simple and only requires cutting 2 small grooves in the crankshaft spacer to allow oil to get to the needle bearing."
I was told yesterday that a "so called Whizzer expert" advised a piston to cylinder clearance of .002" to .020" was OK, it isn't! .002" is way to tight, and .020" will allow white smoke from the exhaust [burning oil]. The correct clearance is .003" ~ .004" on stock pistons, but is different if using the special high performance piston.
The correct ring gap is .012" ~ .018" on the "H" & "J" motors, but is .007" ~ .017" on the "300" and up series of motors.
Another expert advised setting the points at .026", not even close! The best way to set the points [once again from a Whizzer service manual] is to "disconnect the wire from the magneto, attach a light [Whizzer made a timing light for this adjustment] to the points. Rotate the flywheel counter clockwise on the compression stroke until the IGN mark on the flywheel lines up with the T/M mark. This is the position of the flywheel where the points must OPEN. Do not set points with a feeler guage." "Adjust points so that the light goes out at the exact time the marks line up"
Another "so called Whizzer expert" advised the replacement of the 1/4" headbolts from the hardware store, but didn't mention [or most likely didn't know they were different lengths on some "H" motors, and the person broke one of the cylinder fins in the process. Here are the facts! On the early "H" motors using the 1/4" headbolts the bolts are 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" long. When upgrading to use the 5/16" bolts, make sure to shorten several to 1 1/8". The reason is the boss sizes in the head, and later "H" heads used equal depth bosses in the head.
Another item worth commenting about concerns the rod bolts. They are not the same length on the "insert" crankshaft, and if installed wrong will allow the rod to become a "paper weight".
Sorry to make so many comments, but due to bad advice there are now 2 vintage motors in worse condition, one locked the piston in the cylinder and trashed the rod, and the other one now has broken fins on the cylinder.
There are some really great Whizzer collectors that really know the right information, and they will all help if asked. For the few that are looking for "fame" as an expert, please take the time to find the correct information or just refer to someone that knows.
Remember "first do no harm".
Have fun,
I have two of the measuring tools, one original and one aftermarket. Know the shim on the vintage motor is very important. A little bad advice can go a long way to destroying a vintage motor. Many "so called experts" don't have a clue about the different crankshafts, getting oil to the needle bearing, and the different tolerances between the various motors. Some try to apply information used on other brands of motors, and don't have the correct information on the original Whizzer motors.
The information to get the correct lube to the side cover bearing has been covered many times via service bullentins.
Over the last week I have received many phone calls about rebuilding vintage motors, and I am shocked with the amount of bogus information from people who are trying to thrust themselves into the class of Whizzer experts.
To aid the few that are trying to appear as experts please write down the following.
NOT all motors use the same crankshaft side to side play. The "H", "J" and early "300" motors should be .010" ~ .012", but the maximum should never exceed .015". The late "300", "500", "300S", "600S" and the "700" motors should be set at .002" ~ .009" and the maximum shouldn't ever exceed .011".
In order to aid additional oil supply to the needle bearing the original Whizzer company published a service bullentin on November 24, 1950 with the following information "To improve lubrication of the bearing the crankshaft should be drilled as illustrated, using a 17/64" drill." This means drill a hole from the end of the crankshaft to the center to allow oil to travel from the center of the throws to the needle bearing. All later model crankshafts, including the needle bearing crankshaft had this hole. Another Whizzer service bullentin Volume 2 #10 sent the following information to the dealer network "Field complaints have disclosed that many crankshaft needle bearings show excessive wear, dryness and rust after a comparatively short time of service. To correct this condition two oil grooves on the needle bearing boss have been provided at the factory. "The fix is simple and only requires cutting 2 small grooves in the crankshaft spacer to allow oil to get to the needle bearing."
I was told yesterday that a "so called Whizzer expert" advised a piston to cylinder clearance of .002" to .020" was OK, it isn't! .002" is way to tight, and .020" will allow white smoke from the exhaust [burning oil]. The correct clearance is .003" ~ .004" on stock pistons, but is different if using the special high performance piston.
The correct ring gap is .012" ~ .018" on the "H" & "J" motors, but is .007" ~ .017" on the "300" and up series of motors.
Another expert advised setting the points at .026", not even close! The best way to set the points [once again from a Whizzer service manual] is to "disconnect the wire from the magneto, attach a light [Whizzer made a timing light for this adjustment] to the points. Rotate the flywheel counter clockwise on the compression stroke until the IGN mark on the flywheel lines up with the T/M mark. This is the position of the flywheel where the points must OPEN. Do not set points with a feeler guage." "Adjust points so that the light goes out at the exact time the marks line up"
Another "so called Whizzer expert" advised the replacement of the 1/4" headbolts from the hardware store, but didn't mention [or most likely didn't know they were different lengths on some "H" motors, and the person broke one of the cylinder fins in the process. Here are the facts! On the early "H" motors using the 1/4" headbolts the bolts are 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" long. When upgrading to use the 5/16" bolts, make sure to shorten several to 1 1/8". The reason is the boss sizes in the head, and later "H" heads used equal depth bosses in the head.
Another item worth commenting about concerns the rod bolts. They are not the same length on the "insert" crankshaft, and if installed wrong will allow the rod to become a "paper weight".
Sorry to make so many comments, but due to bad advice there are now 2 vintage motors in worse condition, one locked the piston in the cylinder and trashed the rod, and the other one now has broken fins on the cylinder.
There are some really great Whizzer collectors that really know the right information, and they will all help if asked. For the few that are looking for "fame" as an expert, please take the time to find the correct information or just refer to someone that knows.
Remember "first do no harm".
Have fun,
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RdKryton
Active Member
Wow
I'm glad I was not the source of all the misinformation. I do know one thing though. I will keep my big mouth shut unless I personally have had experience with the situation being asked about!
The very last thing I want to do is cause someone to make a paperweight out of an engine...
Jim
I'm glad I was not the source of all the misinformation. I do know one thing though. I will keep my big mouth shut unless I personally have had experience with the situation being asked about!
The very last thing I want to do is cause someone to make a paperweight out of an engine...
Jim
Traveler
Member
Thanks. I'm still working on it and almost have it the way I want. Of course, I've had the side plate off about a dozen times so far.
Hi RdKryton,
Don't stop helping with your great comments & fixes concerning Whizzers. Your knowledge & experience with the new generation Whizzers is well known, so I hope you always share with us. It isn't a secret that information, manuals, modifications & upgrades are non exsisant or outdated concerning the new edition Whizzers, so your information is important to all of us.
Hopefully I can also supply the needed information about the original Whizzers if needed and avoid seeing any more damaged. If anyone needs information on the vintage motors, it is available because the original company published bullentins, and supplied detailed information on upgrades, modifications, changes, & product specifications. I have lots of information on the vintage motors & bikes, but I also know a lot of the "real" experts visit this site, and would gladly help if asked. After all, we would like to see another ten thousand of the vintage motors powering bikes again. And the price for accurate, true, correct information is free, no charge, nada, or in other words free, free, free.
Have fun,
Don't stop helping with your great comments & fixes concerning Whizzers. Your knowledge & experience with the new generation Whizzers is well known, so I hope you always share with us. It isn't a secret that information, manuals, modifications & upgrades are non exsisant or outdated concerning the new edition Whizzers, so your information is important to all of us.
Hopefully I can also supply the needed information about the original Whizzers if needed and avoid seeing any more damaged. If anyone needs information on the vintage motors, it is available because the original company published bullentins, and supplied detailed information on upgrades, modifications, changes, & product specifications. I have lots of information on the vintage motors & bikes, but I also know a lot of the "real" experts visit this site, and would gladly help if asked. After all, we would like to see another ten thousand of the vintage motors powering bikes again. And the price for accurate, true, correct information is free, no charge, nada, or in other words free, free, free.
Have fun,
Last edited:
bill green
Member
Hi Quention Nice talking to you today ..And thank you for all your advise and specs..Bill
Traveler
Member
Shim measurement tool
How is the tool used?
How is the tool used?
Hi Traveler,
I am posting pictures of the different "H" heads. It is easy to see the difference, the head on the left [early 1/4"] has short bosses under the 4 front head bolts, whereas the head on the right [later 1/4"] has the higher bosses. The later "H" head has the bosses all the same height, and if the 1 1/4" long bolts were inserted the amount of threads extending throught the head would be equal lengths. If 1 1/4" bolts are inserted in the early "H" head the length would be different from the 4 front bolts. It is the 4 front bolts that cause the problem on the early head and will break off part of the cylinder fins.
Yet another version of the "H" head needs to be considered. The last versions of the "H" head used 5/16" bolts as did all "J" motors [same head as late "H"]. Whizzer found out that using 5/16" bolts stopped the head gaskets from blowing and the head was far less likely to warp. It is funny that when the new Whizzer company copied the early motors it made the mistake of using the small head bolts [6 MM] and also had major problems with head gaskets, stripped bolts, & stripped bolt holes.
And yes for the record the "H" cylinder
I am posting pictures of the different "H" heads. It is easy to see the difference, the head on the left [early 1/4"] has short bosses under the 4 front head bolts, whereas the head on the right [later 1/4"] has the higher bosses. The later "H" head has the bosses all the same height, and if the 1 1/4" long bolts were inserted the amount of threads extending throught the head would be equal lengths. If 1 1/4" bolts are inserted in the early "H" head the length would be different from the 4 front bolts. It is the 4 front bolts that cause the problem on the early head and will break off part of the cylinder fins.
Yet another version of the "H" head needs to be considered. The last versions of the "H" head used 5/16" bolts as did all "J" motors [same head as late "H"]. Whizzer found out that using 5/16" bolts stopped the head gaskets from blowing and the head was far less likely to warp. It is funny that when the new Whizzer company copied the early motors it made the mistake of using the small head bolts [6 MM] and also had major problems with head gaskets, stripped bolts, & stripped bolt holes.
And yes for the record the "H" cylinder
in the picture is a 63 year old NOS [new old stock] cylinder. The cylinder on the right side is a NE with the later "H" head laying on the top.
Have fun,
Have fun,
Attachments
Last edited:
I need flywheel bolt and washer and points cover plate. Spyder (1-336-341-6848)
