misteright1_99
Member
Very well put Biketec. And on that note, as Mountain Man so eloquently puts it, I'm otta here to "Ride that thing"......
biketec
Member
Indeed .... augie its not like that that wasn't my point I was saying it as a friend people on here can be quite brutal towards ones opinions and views so not giving them a leg to stand on is best at times .. but anywhoo as for you misterright you have the money chain stay!!! this should be a standard in all kits! I love it http://motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=10735&highlight=spring
Mountainman
Active Member
"Ride that thing"
I just got back to this thread
so glad to see that things are now focused
towards riding our MBs
the most important note of the day
as we all --------------- Ride That Thing
I just got back to this thread
so glad to see that things are now focused
towards riding our MBs
the most important note of the day
as we all --------------- Ride That Thing
F
fetor56
Guest
Thanks John for that detailed explanation.
NOT Vendor Bashing...my own practical experience:I like & trust Warren(EVERYONE makes mistakes though) & would much rather buy from him but he's in a real delima since i VERY much doubt Grubee is going to sell to him;particularly after their public "tiff"
Let's hope the Hoot GB keeps pace with Grubees & their's a Mark3 in production,or atleast on the drawing board.
George from MBB is an amiable enough guy & he's learning but he doesn't know(as yet) thoroughly enough about all the products he sells.
I can't blame these ppl cos there's a heck of a lot to learn & what's good about them is that their eagerness to learn......pity it's mostly at OUR expense though.
Since i'm STILL waiting for my Electra Cruiser i'm in limbo as to weather the Grubee 3-piece crank would be acceptable;sounds rather iffy at the moment......IF u have a spare could u please let me know by PM?.
NOT Vendor Bashing...my own practical experience:I like & trust Warren(EVERYONE makes mistakes though) & would much rather buy from him but he's in a real delima since i VERY much doubt Grubee is going to sell to him;particularly after their public "tiff"
Let's hope the Hoot GB keeps pace with Grubees & their's a Mark3 in production,or atleast on the drawing board.
George from MBB is an amiable enough guy & he's learning but he doesn't know(as yet) thoroughly enough about all the products he sells.
I can't blame these ppl cos there's a heck of a lot to learn & what's good about them is that their eagerness to learn......pity it's mostly at OUR expense though.
Since i'm STILL waiting for my Electra Cruiser i'm in limbo as to weather the Grubee 3-piece crank would be acceptable;sounds rather iffy at the moment......IF u have a spare could u please let me know by PM?.
I
Irish John
Guest
Biketec, nothing in your argument corresponds to the reality of the situation. Firstly, the 2 tensioners are supposed to be exactly the same - they fix with 2 bolts for the clamp and one bolt for the chain wheel. The photograph shows the problem clearly.
You say exactly what I hear from all suppliers and it doesn't help things one iota. The kit components have got much worse over time and the incidence of deliberate quality fade is increasing by the day - ipso facto!
Quality fade is a deliberate policy common in China and widely reported in business publications world-wide and there are links to these articles on this forum. Inferior substandard products that have been rejected are sorted separately and put into every shipment in amounts that they think they can get away with. If the suppliers don't ride these bikes and haven't really got much experience with building these kits then they say things exactly the same as what you have written above. I do not know what it is you supply but it certainly helps to have a good knowledge of your product. My supplier knows less about this kit than most of the experienced members on this forum. He is the only supplier in Australia and with the exchange rate in it's current state I can't afford to import from the US. Besides the US suppliers are offering the exact same kit loaded with the same useless components. It doesn't help on a forum such as this to offer sweet platitudes extolling the few good things about China (eg. Ming Dynasty porcelain manufacture) when the problem is defective product being deliberately included in kits and sold sight unseen on the internet.
At MBc we call a spade a spade because it's a forum where users talk to users and no amount of platitudinous twaddle can hide the plain fact that in every kit there is stuff that is just not good enough.
The guys who make these kits aren't regular users of them. How else would both the 4 stroke kits on offer out of China have sprocket wheels that are too large for the motor?
There are two very difficult problems - one is a language barrier between Chinese and non-Chinese and the other is a cultural problem that occurs in China when there is a serious stuff-up. Because they cannot be seen to lose face it makes it impossible for them to admit that they have stuffed up. They also will say yes when they should say no. A taxi driver often says he knows where to take you if you give him the address when in fact he hasn't a clue. The second problem is more debilitating than the first because it makes it impossible for people to be frank with each other. In the west we are allowed to stuff up occasionally and it's no big deal as long as you prepared to set things right. What I maintain is that these kits have become so flawed that its no longer funny and that the suppliers have little leverage and so little practical real hand-on practical experience of the products they sell that they wouldn't be able to exercise any leverage because they don't know enough about the product they sell. They don't look in the boxes - they just flog them on like a transport depot.
The exception is ZBox who are the biggest single buyer of HT kits in the world and who recently got their kits upgraded in quality by threatenng to stop buying.
At my end I lose hand over fist because of the shonky practices in China and my wish is that the suppliers actually looked insiide the boxes and tried building these kits themselves so they had some understanding about what we are on about instead of sounding off like snake oil salesmen. My long term view is that western capital will start pulling out of China and investing in India where the quality control is better and where the problem of loss of face is not so ingrained in the culture.
You say exactly what I hear from all suppliers and it doesn't help things one iota. The kit components have got much worse over time and the incidence of deliberate quality fade is increasing by the day - ipso facto!
Quality fade is a deliberate policy common in China and widely reported in business publications world-wide and there are links to these articles on this forum. Inferior substandard products that have been rejected are sorted separately and put into every shipment in amounts that they think they can get away with. If the suppliers don't ride these bikes and haven't really got much experience with building these kits then they say things exactly the same as what you have written above. I do not know what it is you supply but it certainly helps to have a good knowledge of your product. My supplier knows less about this kit than most of the experienced members on this forum. He is the only supplier in Australia and with the exchange rate in it's current state I can't afford to import from the US. Besides the US suppliers are offering the exact same kit loaded with the same useless components. It doesn't help on a forum such as this to offer sweet platitudes extolling the few good things about China (eg. Ming Dynasty porcelain manufacture) when the problem is defective product being deliberately included in kits and sold sight unseen on the internet.
At MBc we call a spade a spade because it's a forum where users talk to users and no amount of platitudinous twaddle can hide the plain fact that in every kit there is stuff that is just not good enough.
The guys who make these kits aren't regular users of them. How else would both the 4 stroke kits on offer out of China have sprocket wheels that are too large for the motor?
There are two very difficult problems - one is a language barrier between Chinese and non-Chinese and the other is a cultural problem that occurs in China when there is a serious stuff-up. Because they cannot be seen to lose face it makes it impossible for them to admit that they have stuffed up. They also will say yes when they should say no. A taxi driver often says he knows where to take you if you give him the address when in fact he hasn't a clue. The second problem is more debilitating than the first because it makes it impossible for people to be frank with each other. In the west we are allowed to stuff up occasionally and it's no big deal as long as you prepared to set things right. What I maintain is that these kits have become so flawed that its no longer funny and that the suppliers have little leverage and so little practical real hand-on practical experience of the products they sell that they wouldn't be able to exercise any leverage because they don't know enough about the product they sell. They don't look in the boxes - they just flog them on like a transport depot.
The exception is ZBox who are the biggest single buyer of HT kits in the world and who recently got their kits upgraded in quality by threatenng to stop buying.
At my end I lose hand over fist because of the shonky practices in China and my wish is that the suppliers actually looked insiide the boxes and tried building these kits themselves so they had some understanding about what we are on about instead of sounding off like snake oil salesmen. My long term view is that western capital will start pulling out of China and investing in India where the quality control is better and where the problem of loss of face is not so ingrained in the culture.
biketec
Member
WOW Really! so is what your saying is I have no clue?I don't ride my bike 30+ miles a day ? I haven't done it now for over 5 years?and some guy in Australia.. who buys a hoot box??? is the biggest importer of HT kits??? hummm
well I guess you know best! I'm truly offended by your accusations I guess I don't see why your so offended by what you get, I like new cars but they sure don't make'em like they used to!
I
Irish John
Guest
That's it in a nutshell Fetor I agree with you wholeheartedly. The likelihood of Grubee changing their sole distributor to Warren is about as likely as my being appointed as China's ambassador to the World Chamber of Trade! Meanwhile I need to focus on the positive aspects of my contributing thousands of dollars a year to the slow and painful process of the bike engine kit suppliers near horizontal learning curve. I'm just one of a vast army of generous suckers involved in this long and arduous crusade.
arceeguy
Active Member
Dude - you are p|ssing in the wind buddy. This forum is heavily anti-China. Just do a search on the word "China" or "Chinese". The word is used as a pejorative term. The term "quality fade" was probably coined here to trash any product that comes from China. I drove a car from 1997 and another (same model and engine) that was built in 2004 - aside from the styling differences, the "new style" engine had a plastic valve cover, plastic intake manifold, and a lot of plastic parts that were formerly CAST ALUMINUM. Is this the "quality fade" phenomena?
Does that chain tensioner do the job? I bet that it does, doesn't it. See, I have noticed that chain tensioners can slip from engine vibration, and it really doesn't matter how thick the metal is. A simple screw pin added to the side of the clamp will stop it from possibly shifting into the spokes. The thinner metal is more than capable of supporting the chain. I think some people like to complain about Chinese products just to complain about them.
F
fetor56
Guest
Anti-Chinese.........more accurately anti-inferior.
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