Fix my Whizzer!

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by go-rebels, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    2005 NE5 with mushroom lifters, 1 tooth advanced cam, copper head gasket and high compression, custom cast cylinder head from Quenton (spark plug points to the right) just with new spark plug just installed. Original 22mm carb, jets and everything else.

    I took the bike on what would be a 12 mile ride but at the top of a decent sized hill one mile from home the bike began to lose power. Then the road leveled out and at 2 miles from home, going up a very slight hill the bike stalled, never to start.

    I rode and walked Whizzer home and tried to fire 'er up. Nothing. I checked for spark and that was OK. Tried "Instant Start" through the carb and that didn't work. Compression is good.

    I figure that I've fouled the spark plug but I'm having trouble getting the plug out as I just don't have enough clearance to get a standard 13/16" deep well socket around the 10mm head bolt (I really don't know how I got the plug tight in the first place). I'll get it out somehow tomorrow.

    What else could it be???

  2. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi go-rebels,
    The spark plug in your head is a 13/16". My spark plug socket has a thin wall where as my deep well socket has a thick wall.

    Is the exhaust pipe changing color [blueing] as it exits the manifold? If all else fails, check to make sure the lifters are still in adjustment.

    If you injected starting fluid and it didn't fire, it would seem the spark plug might be the problem.

    You might want to grind a little from the top of the 10 MM bolt to make it easier next time you need to remove or install spark plug.

    Keep us posted,
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  3. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    Exhaust is shiny chrome, so I suspect that, if anything, the motor is running rich. But would the factory set carb run so rich so as to foul a plug so badly that it would stop firing?

    Yup, I'll chamfer a little off that 10mm bolt when I get it out. I think I have a spark plug socket somewhere... if not it will be another trip to the flea market to get a 12 pt 13/16" for some "modification".

    If the plug looks good, then I'll need to check the lifters. Easy things first!
  4. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    And if the intake lock nut loosened on the intake lifter, and the adjusting screw worked inself down into the lifter, then no amount of starting fluid will work becase the intake will never open.
  5. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    The plug may still look good but may still be bad. I would try a new plug no matter how the old one looks.
  6. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    Could be, but the plug is only 2 miles old! But then, the bike would not start when I first bought it and that plug had only 22 miles on it when it failed.
  7. Whizzer Plugs

    Hi I have not had any trouble with spark plugs, BUT you can. When you get a new plug, spend the extra money and get the Iridium plug, they really do work better at any time. I would suspect EITHER, or possibly both, the Key switch (yes it can and will kill spark if it is defective in any way (like salt air etc), or the kill switch. NOW I would try keyswitch first, remove tank, unplug the wires test the bike. Then the kill switch, remember, if you need to kill the engine with no electrics, just use compression release.

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2009
  8. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    Hey Mike.
    I have had Champion,Bosch, and NGK plugs brand new and bad right out of the box. It doesn't happen often but it has happened to me. You have been very lucky or I have been very unlucky. lol

  9. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    Do iridium plugs come in various sizes? My plug is now a non-standard Whizzer type.
  10. RdKryton

    RdKryton Active Member

    Yes they do. What is the plug make and # you have now. I will try to cross reference it for you.
  11. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi go-rebels,

    Use an NGK #BR6HIX [Iridium] and gap it .026" ~ .027".

    You might want to set the needle jet with the clip in the second groove from the top.
    I have had several contact me lately and spark plugs have been the problem many of the times. I personally have had great luck with spark plugs, but I know it doesn't take much to knock one out. When I raced motorcycles, in order to save money, I often "sandblasted" plugs and re-used them. It didn't take long for me to realize how important a spark plug is in a single cylinder motor, and after having the "sandblasted" plugs fail quickly, and cost me "position" in races, if I even thought a plug was suspect I replaced it.

    I do know a few Whizzer owners spent a lot of time and energy looking for solutions to start their motor and it ended up being a bad spark plug.

    If a motor is rough on spark plugs it can be caused by intermitten ignition [I have had several sensors causing problems], or a carburetor problem [too much fuel suddently].

    Keep us posted on what stopped your ride, and if you need any help let me know.

    Have fun,
  12. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    I only had time today to pull the plug and check it's condition. It really looked "clean", unlike the usual black sootball I had with the factory head and plug. I think the swirl pattern using the custom head really improves the mixture and provides a more complete burn.

    Anyway, I'm not absolutely certain that the plug is good so I'll buy another Autolite "275" before I go for the Iridium or dig into the lifter opening.

    Given that I have spark, and the bike would not start after spraying Instant Start through the carb, I suspect that my intake valve adjustment has loosened and the intake isn't opening. Or that plug did die after 2 miles!
  13. Baverian

    Baverian Member

    The best way to clean a fuel/oil soaked spark plug is to burn them clean with a propane torch.Get the ceramic center insulator cherry red, it will turn white again.Use something other than your fingers to hold the plug.

  14. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    But my old plug looks perfect. In no way is it fuel/oil soaked.
  15. Baverian

    Baverian Member

    Just wanted to put this info out there.much better than sandblasting.
  16. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    Yes, I agree! A few grains of sand dislodged from the inside of a plug could really accelerate the wear within the cylinder and piston. Does JC Whitney still sell the small plug cleaner (sand blaster) that plugs into the cigarette lighter? I remember seeing these decades ago.
  17. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    I had less than one-half hour to do some more troubleshooting. Here is the summary:

    Installed a new spark plug; spraying Instart Start into the carb. Whizzer still won't start.

    Pulled the carb and decompression plate off the cylinder to get access to the lifters. Lifter gap measured 0.017" on the intake and 0.013" on the exhaust. Everything looked tight; none of the jam nuts were obviously loose. So the crank is spinning with the valves hardly moving at all! Consequently, I'm barely pulling a vacuum through the carb. I'll reset the gap tonight if I get time.

    The motor has less than 25 miles since adding the mushroom lifters. Why would the lifter gap change so much?
  18. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi go-rebels,

    The gap should be .008" on the exhaust, and .006" on the intake. I have seen lifters get out of adjustment, but is caused by the "jam" nuts becoming loose, or excessive lifter wear, but the lifter wear is only possible with the stock "soft" lifters.

    Possible things to check, are the valves hitting the top of the combustion chamber in the head [not likely]? The gear is pressed onto the camshaft, and a few have been know to slip. It is possible to use the wrong marks on the crankshaft as a reference, but I don't think it would have ever started.
    An easy way to determine if the valves have enough head clearance is to adjust the clearance out of the valves [zero clearance] and make sure the motor turns freely. If the valves are close to the top of the chamber and the clearance is adjusted out the motor will not turn over completely if the valves hit the inside of the head.

    I am somewhat puzzled about your motor, please let me know what you find.

    Have fun,
  19. go-rebels

    go-rebels Member

    Remember, this is the custom "high fin" head I picked up from a famous Whizzer engine builder that frequents this site (!).

    I'll check the jam nuts again. Maybe they are a little loose and I didn't see it in my cursory check. I'll try the zero clearance test too as its easy enough. If I can't turn the motor, then I'll need to go back to the stock head.

    But I can't believe that I've got valve interference. The bike would have started and stalled out immediately once the valves crashed into the head. I wouldn't have been able to ride it for 2 miles without a problem.

  20. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi go-rebels,

    You are correct, if the valves hit the head it surely wouldn't have gone far or in fact start at all. If the problem is valves touching the head [which I doubt, just trying to figure out any possble cause], I can easily correct it. The combustion chamber in your special head is very shallow to increase the compression, but the head was tested on an NE motor with a high lift camshaft & mushroom lifters, and shouldn't be too close.

    If the valves touch at zero clearance, let me know. It is very easy to machine the top of the valves to add additional room inside the head [if needed, I will provide service free of charge].

    Have fun,
    252-475-0406 cell