got to love Ca DMV regarding MBs

[OCLandspeeder]

406a covers gas and electric 30mph bikes. 406b covers only electric 20mph bikes and is the only class that does not require a license.

12804.9. (5) (A) Class M2 includes the following:
(i) A motorized bicycle or moped, or a bicycle with an attached motor, except a motorized bicycle described in subdivision (b) of Section 406.

406. (a) A "motorized bicycle" or "moped" is any two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor which produces less than 2 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.



406. (b) A "motorized bicycle" is also a device that has fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power and has an electric motor that meets all of the following requirements:
(1) Has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts.
(2) Is incapable of propelling the device at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour on ground level.

On VC 12804.9 defines what the M2 endorsement allows you to operate. It does not say when you need it.

Then 406 defines what a motorized bicycle is. But nowhere in there does it say you NEED an M2 endorsement to operate it. It needs to be that specific for it to apply and stick in a courtroom. If it is not specific (ie vague) it won't stand up to any scrutiny. Remember, if there is a doubt, you cannot be found guilty.

You can easily argue this in court and win because it is so vague. I mean, what if you take the drivetrain out of the motor but keep the motor on? IS it still a motorized bicycle? Or is it a bicycle? Is the MB sold with lights, license plate holder, turn signals, mirrors, etc., that is required by the DOT so you can register it? Did it begin as a bicycle and you just installed a motor? See how vague it is? There are so many grey areas in there and loop holes. And why would the state of CA allow electric MB to not require an M2 (like someone mentioned) yet require it for gas power? The difference is only in the power source! It is so vague that none of that will stand up in court.

I guess it all boils down to the individual. If you feel you MUST have all your bases covered, then go and get that M2 endorsement and register your MB (if the DMV allows you). Or, you can just enjoy and ride safe without a care in the world. If you get pulled over, reason with the officer. If he/she insists, fight it in court and most likely you will win.

 

[rockvoice]

why would any one want to go to court?
why would any one not want to just go take the written test and get a M2 permit for 28 bucks if for nothing else to cover your ***.
less than thirty bucks is alot cheaper than court costs and missing work.

 

[Mountainman]

the reason that I didn't get the M2

why would any one not want to just go take the written test and get a M2 permit for 28 bucks if for nothing else to cover your ***.

I did take the written test for both regular and M2 license
passed both
then they told me I would get my license with picture in the mail
after I came back in and took the motor cycle driving test
I told them that I don't have a motor cycle to take the test on
I have a motorized bicycle
three of them DMV employees got together and said that all I needed was
a standard drivers license -- type as used while operating a car
to operate and ride a motorized bicycle in Calif
then the DMV lady threw the M2 test that I had taken into the trash

that's why I just wouldn't want to get a M2 license
send our regards to good old forbish

I think that I have about seen enough

as I ride that thing

 

[rockvoice]

let me just say this then i will leave this thread alone for good:

the only reason i say get the permit is, I have been ask to present an M2 twice by the L.A.P.D. thats why i got one in the first place, just to cover all (some) of the bases. (funny thing though is they just asked if i had an M2 but never asked to see it)

 

[Scotchmo]

On VC 12804.9 defines what the M2 endorsement allows you to operate. It does not say when you need it.

An M2 endorsement "allows" you to operate a moped legally on the street. So if you do not have an M2, you are not allowed to drive it legally on the street.

VC 12804.9 describes what each license classification "allows" you to drive. Using your logic, one could argue that you don't "need" a license to drive anything. Good luck arguing that in court.

You are right in that there are plenty of seemingly illogical and/or confusing restrictions/requirements in the moped/scooter/motorized bicycle/motor driven cycle/motorcycle/quadricycle/tricycle/sidecar classes. When you dig deeper many of them have their roots in common sense but they really need to be consolidated, rewritten and simplified. I think that the differences in electric vs. gas are policy issues that should be addressed. They should eliminate any reference to fuel type.

 

[Mountainman]

this fine thread goes on and on

An M2 endorsement "allows" you to operate a moped legally on the street. So if you do not have an M2, you are not allowed to drive it legally on the street.

great long thread

there's a slight problem with that Scotchmo
we don't ride moped's
I am riding a motorized bicycle
told a different beast ??

MM

 

[Scotchmo]

great long thread

there's a slight problem with that Scotchmo
we don't ride moped's
I am riding a motorized bicycle
told a different beast ??

MM

You are in California and you say that it is not a moped. It is only a motorized bicycle. Unless they change the law, we have to assume that it has an electric motor and goes 20mph.

If it falls under 406b, than it is only a motorized bicycle.

If it falls under 406a, than you can call it a moped or a motorized bicycle.

You can call it whatever you want, what matters is the definition in the vehicle code. By definition in the vehicle code, a 406a class motorized bicycle is a moped and has the same requirements as far as equipment and licensing.

 

[moondog]

What is a moped ?

quote:


The word moped was coined by Swedish journalist Harald Nielsen in 1952, as a portmanteau of motor and pedal. It is however often claimed to be derived from "motorvelociped", as Velocipede is an obsolete term for bicycle that is still being used in some languages such as Russian.[2] According to Douglas Harper, the Swedish terms originated from "(trampcykel med) mo(tor och) ped(aler)", which means "pedal cycle with engine and pedals." (the earliest versions had auxiliary pedals).[3]

Other terms used for low-powered cycles include: Mofa (Motor-Fahrrad, German for motor-bicycle), Mokick (equipped with kick-start), Motorbicycle, Motorized Bicycle, Motor-Driven Cycle, and Goped (motorized inline skateboard with T-bar), Mopo (Moottoripolkupyörä, Finnish meaning motor-powered bicycle). The term "Noped" is sometimes used for mopeds that do not have the pedals fitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped

quote:
a pedal-cycle which has a small motor

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/moped

history
http://cyclemaster.wordpress.com/page-1-the-latest-motor-assisted-bicycles/

http://solexin.free.fr/us/history/histo/index.html

1952 moped

http://www.mopedarmy.com/photos/brand/74/2825/

Saying something is a motorized bicycle and not a moped goes against history. It is silly for the states to do it and it is silly for motorbikers to do it.


It just confuses people. There are ads on Craigslist where I live (Florida)where people that make and sell bicycles with "80cc" motors on them claim you don't need a license to drive them.

Then people who build bicycles with electric motors will reply saying the gas motorbikes are not legal.

Silly.

 

[Mountainman]

great information agreed
we are talking about Calif only in this thread

a motorized bicycle in Calif
has pedals
engine under 2 hp
NO turn lights,elect horn etc
usually fairly easy to pedal without using the motor

a moped in Calif
has pedals
engine OVER 2 hp
does have turn lights, elect horn, mirrows, battery usually -- etc etc
usually darn hard to peddal without using the motor

conclusion -- a big difference noted between the two
and forgetting about the correct terms used above
seems that Calif is pretty right on !!!

a question for you on the way out
does that Honda moped shown in the site above have much truly in common with a motorized bicycle ?
I really don't think so -- I have one of those Honda things in the garage
that thing is SUPER HEAVY and I wouldn't wish to peddal it anywhere
my MB is a whole different story -- I JUST PEDDAL IT OFTEN

MM

 

[moondog]

In the book 1984 words were changed by the state. Called it newspeak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

The state can call them what they want.

You can call your dog moped, your cat moped, your boat moped, your firstborn moped. That does not mean they are mopeds.

We did not invent motorized bicycles or mopeds or coin the terms.

As motorbikers I think we should respect the history of what we are doing.

I think there should be more talk about how to hook up lights than talk like in this thread.

They show a tv show here where people in Calif build motorcycles from scratch and ride them.

If you go to a motorcycle show it is full of homebuilt custom motorcycles and people tag and ride them.

We are building and riding homebuilt mopeds. That is what we are doing.