two stroke vs four stroke

[Warner]

A 2-stroke motors inherent design calls for routine piston ring replacement and cyclinder boring to maintain compression. The cylinders can be only bored so much so many times. After this the cyclinder has to be thrown away. Its common for any 2-stoke to have consistent cyclinder wear which leads to this maintenance.

These are just facts. It does not matter who makes the 2-stroke. They will all need replacement rings and cyclinder boring after a certain amount of hours.

4-strokes are made for reliability. 4-strokes are the choice for most applications that requires a workhorse. They are not designed to have the rings replaced after a short time to maintain compression.

Before the recent implement of 4-strokes, motorcross racers had to change their piston rings after every race. Every time. Not changing their rings they lose power and would have to bore their engine sooner to maintain their compression.

This was more true with the older (air cooled) motocross bikes, but this is NOT true for the 2 stroke engines we are talking about in this discussion. In general, I would say that 4 stokes are built to last longer, but not these engines used in this application.

The argument can be made for power, look and affordability. But as far as reliability its not even close. 4-strokes last longer period.

Ask an actual engine builder who deals with 2-stroke and 4-stroke rebuilds. He will laugh at the notion that a 2-stroke even comes close to 4-stroke reliability.

I would agree in general, but NOT with regard to these particular engines in this particular application. Most people using them ARE holding them wide open (or close to it) for extended periods of time. As far as talking to engine builders, the builders of THESE engines have given them the exact same engine life ratings. So the argument goes back to what you want.

If you want light, powerful, and low maintenance, go with the 2 stroke.

If you hate pouring a little oil in your gas can before you fill it, but don't mind making regular engine oil changes and valve adjustments with a less powerful, potentially quieter and lower emission engine, a 4 stroke is what you are looking for.

Warner

 

[duivendyk]

If you derate any engine it will last a lot longer.It makes no sense to compare highly tuned high rpm 2 stroke racing engine to workhorse 4 stroke.I have had over 25K on my Yamaha 2 strokes.But I didn't run them at top speed much either .What people tend to do with small engines is running them WOT,then they won't last long no matter what type

 

[srdavo]

Different Strokes.......
........for Different Folks!!

 

[Member 5549]

I Think

It's really a Question of quality insteed of 2 stroke or 4 stroke
They are both good, But are design dependent...
Example the robin engine and the Tanaka both very good quality..
I think thats more important, To get a good design ...
you can find crappy 4 strokes and 2 strokes also....

 

[wilbur]

As far as balance, you are definitely correct. Once moving, the rack mounts are as easy to ride as a regular bicycle, but you CAN feel that weight up high at walking speeds. As far as mounting panniers....no problem with a rack mount...you just have to be mildly creative. Here are some photos of my ride:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB28.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB34.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB21.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB17.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB18.jpg


Wow !!!.You did a good job hiding that engine .Is that a battery in front of your bike lock?.

 

[wilbur]

Thats me too Warner WOT.

 

[Waterfowl]

This was more true with the older (air cooled) motocross bikes, but this is NOT true for the 2 stroke engines we are talking about in this discussion. In general, I would say that 4 stokes are built to last longer, but not these engines used in this application.


Nope, My experience has to do with old air cooled AND water cooled two strokes. Racers still changed their rings after every race even with water cooled 2-strokes. I'm the son a motorcross racer and have been riding motorcycle since I've been 4 years old. I rode a motorcycle before I ever attempted to ride a bicycle. The nature of the two engines have a direct influence on our topic. You can't dismiss the inherent design of the motor type by the application.


I would agree in general, but NOT with regard to these particular engines in this particular application. Most people using them ARE holding them wide open (or close to it) for extended periods of time. As far as talking to engine builders, the builders of THESE engines have given them the exact same engine life ratings. So the argument goes back to what you want.

If you want light, powerful, and low maintenance, go with the 2 stroke.

If you hate pouring a little oil in your gas can before you fill it, but don't mind making regular engine oil changes and valve adjustments with a less powerful, potentially quieter and lower emission engine, a 4 stroke is what you are looking for.

Warner

Again you can't dismiss how a engine is designed by saying "In this application." The application is to power a two wheeled vehicle. A 2-stroke will have to have the top end rebuilt much sooner than any maintainence that a 4-stroke will need. Its not even close. I've owned enough of both to know that "low maintenace and 2-stroke" are words that anyone with experience with both would never use.

 

[Warner]

As far as balance, you are definitely correct. Once moving, the rack mounts are as easy to ride as a regular bicycle, but you CAN feel that weight up high at walking speeds. As far as mounting panniers....no problem with a rack mount...you just have to be mildly creative. Here are some photos of my ride:

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB28.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB34.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB21.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB17.jpg

http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd265/warners_photos/MAB18.jpg


Wow !!!.You did a good job hiding that engine .Is that a battery in front of your bike lock?.

Hahaha...thanks man. Yes, that is a battery. It's for my 55 watt headlight and my scooter horn. With the 7.5 aH sealed lead acid battery, I have gone well over an hour with the headlight on. In total darkness it lights up the road almost as good as a motorcycle headlight. It's VERY usable and I would not hesitate to ride at night with it. In fact, I feel SAFER at night as oncoming traffic sees me better than they do in daylight. I just bought those cheapo driving lights they sell at the auto parts stores for $30 if I remember correctly...and that was for TWO of them, so I have a spare. I have about $100 into the headlight all together....which isn't bad for how BRIGHT it is.

Warner

 

[Warner]

Again you can't dismiss how a engine is designed by saying "In this application." The application is to power a two wheeled vehicle. A 2-stroke will have to have the top end rebuilt much sooner than any maintainence that a 4-stroke will need. Its not even close. I've owned enough of both to know that "low maintenace and 2-stroke" are words that anyone with experience with both would never use.

I was not dismissing how either type of engine was designed. You are of course entitled to your opinion. I did not feel the need to talk about my experiences with both 2 and 4 stroke engines, but suffice to say that I do have experience with both of them, and as I said in one of my earlier posts, I GENERALLY agreed with your take about reliability, just not in this application. I agree with the companies that manufacture the engines in question who rate both the good 2 strokes and the good 4 strokes with the same engine life estimates. Here is a quote from the Staton website:

"The Robin - Subaru, Honda, Mitsubishi & Tanaka engines are rated for 600 + hours of use. We have had many of these engine run 2 & 3 times the rating. Engine life in miles. 600 hours @ 30 mph = 18,000 miles. Your engine could get as many as 54,000 miles or more. "

The reason I keep using the "in this application" line is because of the actual usage these engines see during the course of their lives on an MAB. Which typically means they are run pretty much wide open for their entire lives.

Warner

 

[Waterfowl]

I was not dismissing how either type of engine was designed. You are of course entitled to your opinion. However, the companies that manufacture the engines in question disagree with your opinion. Both the good 2 strokes and the good 4 strokes have the same engine life estimates. Here is a quote from the Staton website:

"The Robin - Subaru, Honda, Mitsubishi & Tanaka engines are rated for 600 + hours of use. We have had many of these engine run 2 & 3 times the rating. Engine life in miles. 600 hours @ 30 mph = 18,000 miles. Your engine could get as many as 54,000 miles or more. "

The reason I keep using the "in this application" line is because of the actual usage these engines see during the course of their lives on an MAB. Which typically means they are run pretty much wide open for their entire lives.

Warner

Your quote is from a vendor for all the motors. NOT from the manufacturer of each individual motor. It is impossible for all four manufacturers to simultaneously rate their motors the same. Thats extremely faulty logic and info.